A domestic scene. A needle drop. At first familiar, “LOST” wastes no time disorienting then delighting us, and getting right to a central (and perhaps controversial) premise for Season 5: time travel. Jen and I will share our full reaction to tonight’s episodes on our podcast, but here’s our first take.
“Because You Left”
Jen: The opening scene of the fifth season pretty much left me speechless. I like it even better than the first glimpse of Desmond we got back in Season 2, and that’s saying something. The worker’s remark to Daniel, “Time travel… how stupid does that guy think we are?” verbalizes what the audience is thinking. They let you know right away that you’re in for a serious dose of sci-fi right from the beginning. No playing around. The reappearance of The Swan fuels the time-loop theory, as does Richard’s comment to Locke: “The next time you see me, I won’t recognize you.” I’m more convinced than ever that we’re going to wind up right back where we started, with Jack on his back in the jungle.
Ryan: There are rules. Time is like a record, or a street. If it didn’t happen, it can’t happen. Not only have we been taken straight into time travel, but we’re told up front how things work. Or should. I’m still not convinced we’re in a paradox-free narrative. I’m sure this development will drive some fans away (particularly those who believed the creators when they said “LOST” wasn’t a time travel show), but personally I’m happy to go along for the ride. Certain things just resonated. How Alpert observes, “What comes around goes around,” after Ethan shoots Locke. The compass that Alpert gives Locke (“It points north, John.”), which is one of the artifacts Alpert showed Locke as a young boy. The fact that Locke witnesses the crash of the Nigerian drug plane, when it was he who saw that same plane crash in a creepy Boone vision way back in Season 1. Come to think of it, from Daniel explaining what’s happening to Locke’s solo flashing, most of the best stuff happened on the island. Though it was good to see Desmond re-enlisted, we’ve done the “find me in the futurepast” before. And having followed the Oceanic 6’s long journey off the island last season, their mission to return now doesn’t seem as compelling.
“The Lie”
Jen: Is Sun evil? I am convinced she ratted out Kate. She’s as good an actress as Libby. It’s going to be Sun and Widmore vs. Everybody Else. “The Lie” is in many ways a much weaker episode, in my opinion. Apart from Ana Lucia’s appearance and Frogurt’s untimely demise, nothing about this episode really lingered in my mind. I cannot take Cheech Marin seriously. I don’t buy him as a concerned father, and the scenes with him felt like too much comedy shoved into what’s supposed to be an intense, dramatic episode. The scenes with Sayid sacked out on Hurley’s couch reminded me of “The Princess Bride.” I have to admit, though, that Frogurt’s death is pretty great in a shocking, twisted, hilarious way. We’re expecting Nikki and Paolo, but we get Dr. Arzt. Loved it.
Ryan: Agreed. Frogurt’s death makes it all worthwhile. It was telegraphed a bit, since they made him overwhelmingly and instantly annoying, but still. Best “LOST” death ever. And I actually hope Sun’s newly vengeful character gives Yunjin Kim a chance to relish seething evil. Compared to all the mythology in Episode 1, Episode 2 was character driven. And while I love, love, love Hurley, a lot of the drama rang hollow. Maybe the opening scene just soured me? First, Jack is just finishing up what must be a heck of an explanation of why they must all lie — an explanation that, frankly, seems pretty flimsy considering the toll it takes. Then, Hurley spells out exactly how he won’t help Sayid someday because Sayid won’t back him up, foreshadowing that’s about as anvilicious as any scene we’ve had to date. I did enjoy Hurley’s encounter with Ana Lucia, his 90 second recap of the whole series, and the flying Hot Pocket. But even the big reveal of Ms. Hawking didn’t hit me as hard as I feel it should have. The robe, the chalkboard, the old computer… the sequence felt like a mashup of Harry Potter and the Wizard of Oz. At least we now know the Oceanic 6 will spend only three days running around before heading back.
Notes & Notions
- Before he’s interrupted, Marvin Candle explains that The Arrow is to defend against and conduct surveillance on “The Hostiles,” the indigenous population of the island. Given the four toed statue, I think this brief mention suggests we’re going to get a lot of pre-DHARMA history this season.
- Daniel says that the time is dislodged in time, the way a record skips. I can only imagine that this doesn’t happen indefinitely… else this show may become entirely impossible to follow. As Charlotte’s getting the Nosebleed of Doom already, a timer seems to be set on solving the whole flashing problem.
- Lots of great lines. “By the way, Libby says hi.” Sawyer yells, “I’m the ghost of Christmas future!” Miles says, “That chick likes me.” And Sawyer’s nicknames, of course (Dilbert, Ginger, Whiz Kid), including one that Miles corrects (Mr. Wizard). Both Jack and Sawyer say, “Son of a bitch,” but only Sawyer’s utterance is separated by a span of, oh, several years. And the phrase, “God help us all,” first from Marvin Candle at the start of Episode 1, and then from Ms. Hawking at the end of Episode 2.
- Sawyer seemed a bit erratic, but entertainingly so, and he lets slip that he’s broken up over losing Kate. His reaction to all the flashing, frankly, seemed most realistic. Though I thought the slap he gave Daniel was a bit odd.
- Locke’s leg is injured once again. There seems to be a pretty explicit and unsubtle connection between Locke’s faith and resolve and his ability to walk.
- Music: “Shotgun Willie” by Willie Nelson opens the season. “Dream Police” by Cheap Trick plays in the gas station where Hurley gets his shih-tsu T-shirt.
- Locations: We see the famous Rainbow Drive-In, in a wonderful onymous cameo. The safe house is in Makiki (1818 Anapuni St.). The airport is inside the cruise ship terminal at Pier 2, at the Foreign Trade Zone makai of Restaurant Row. Hurley is pulled over by Ana Lucia on Waialae Ave. in Kaimuki, about two blocks from the gas station where Hurley gets his shirt and where Kate gets a call from Sun. Hurley’s dad meets Jack in an underground parking lot in Waikiki (below Niketown), and takes Sayid to Hawaii Medical Center East (2230 Liliha St.). And we returned to Kate and Hurley’s homes in Kahala.
“The Transmission” is powered by you! Please share your thoughts on the Season 5 Premiere (both “Because You Left” and “The Lie”) by calling the LostLine at (808) 356-0127, e-mailing us at lost@hawaiiup.com, or by commenting here, by Friday, Jan. 23, 2009.
Namaste!
I watched the episodes this morning and I have to say I was a little disappointed. I felt like the writers were trying too hard to bring back the gimmicks that worked last season and in seasons before that-mostly in the dialogue (ex. Hurley’s lines to make him cutely exasperated, Sawyer’s angry nicknaming, Ben’s sly mysteriousness). The only line that really struck me as awesome was “What is this dead Pakistani doing on my couch?!” Haha classic. I dunno, just a lot of the scenes fell flat for me. The ones that were plot-driven were definitely exciting and intriguing, and I love where Desmond’s story is going.
I hope in future episodes that the writers get back into the natural-feeling “groove” of the dialogue. Looking forward to next week!
1) I agree–too many commercials last night!
2) It took me a few minutes to place Mrs. Hawking at the end. I knew she must be Faraday’s mom, but I couldn’t remember where we’d seen her before. It was in “Flashes Before Your Eyes,” right?
3) I think that what we saw last night is just a few pieces of the overall season and that it will be hard to really appreciate it until we get more pieces. A lot of Lost is like that.
4) I’m not so sure Ben so much as “ratted out Kate” as he just sent some men to her house to act as lawyers wanting a blood sample. He always has a plan, remember, and I think he knew that he could scare her into wanting to leave. He has a lot of people and connections everywhere.
Speaking of which: What about Jill the butcher? Should we know her from somewhere? Or are we just learning that Ben has people on and off the island?
Awww, LOST is back 🙂
A couple things I noticed: What was in that package Ben took out of the vent in the hotel room? He was clearly hiding it from Jack. Also, Ben’s reaction in the butcher shop to the question of Locke being dead was interesting. I think Locke is only dead in the “real” world – something to do with the time travel – but will be alive when they return to the island.
The scene with Hurley and Ben was very odd; Ben was acting so happy and nice, what the heck is he up to? He wouldn’t have acted that way with anyone but mentally unstable Hurley. It will be interesting to see how they get Hurley out of custody.
I could do without Cheech from now on. The other actors on the show are so great, he really throws the flow off.
I noticed that picture in Kate’s house too. It looked like Jack and Aaron.
Can’t wait to listen to the podcast!
I loved both episodes. Did anyone else think that Faraday’s explanation for why you couldn’t change the past was weak? I guess “Things just won’t work out for you” seemed like a cop out to me. It did open Sawyer for a pretty good line though, “I’m aware of what I lost”, that’s pretty emotionally raw for Sawyer.
Hey Ryan and Jen – love the Podcast!
What grabbed me about this – Faraday is actively trying to change history. We’re seeing it twice in this episode – first, as an infiltrate of Dharma (which hopefully we’ll see him get more crazy about sabotage in future episodes). Then, after just telling Sawyer he can’t change things, he makes the attempt by contacting Desmond. Is Desmond special? I don’t know. Faraday seems to think so, in as much as he thinks that he’s got the key to change the course of events.
Ultimately, what happens happens, and all his attempts will fail. That is why, when we first meet Faraday in the regular episodic TV show story, he’s sitting in front of a television, watching the wreckage of Oceanic 815, and crying. All he attempted to do has failed miserably. There’s still a fake plane at the bottom of the ocean, there are still survivors on the island, and he has to go back and experience it all again.
My one big “pfffft!” moment has got to be the druidic fashion of Ms. Hawking. I understand she’s dealing with some pretty cosmic stuff down there, but really, why the long hooded robes? She can’t do her mystical math in a pantsuit?
Thanks, guys! Can’t wait to hear this week’s podcast!
Lynn (Boston, MA)
Ugh. Turn around time to comment on a show is only two days? I’m spoiled from our hiatus schedule.
Lynn, thank you for think through Faraday’s dilemma. I’ll second this theory. Maybe we’ll get a flashback of young Doctor Wizard running around the abbey with mom and dad? He may even encounter Desmond, the brother as a teen. He must realize on the island that Desmond has turned the fail safe key and that he will be the source, the key, the answer to prayers for ‘us all.’
Hi all. Your comments are great. I will have to watch one more time to see it clearly. Ryan, I did catch the Rainbow Drive-In! I am giving up my spoiler diet (I’m starving) and will now go back and pick up your forward cabin remarks. Looking forward to the cast.
Like so many here I’m just trying to work through this time stuff. I’m not convinced that they are changing the past, but instead trying to influence the future. All along I’ve thought of the way time works on Lost similar to that of Twelve Monkeys. That is, for any one person, they experience their life linearly — everything just happens once — even if there is some going back and forth along the “thread” that Daniel talked about. So I’m thinking that yes, Daniel did talk to Desmond, which then Desmond remembered later. But it didn’t change the past. It changed the future, because Desmond then knew to go to Oxford.
LOVE your podcast! It is so well-done, informed, and informative. Also love the Filmspotting references, as I am a fan of both podcasts.
Hi Jen and Ryan, you guys have the best podcast on iTunes today. Keep up the incredible work.
Well first things first, I think the quality of the show was amazing. Its very easy to follow and probably more fun to go along for the ride then the other seasons. I loved the first 2 episodes and I think it’s a shame that you can’t take Cheech Marin seriously. I thought he did great, and always does so in ever episode he’s in. Hugo’s 90 sec wrap up’s was one of the best monologues in recent LOST history. To me these 2 episodes were both setting up for Jughead which I believe will wreak serious havoc in a wonderful way. Thats the episode that will reinforce our hearts why it is we love Lost.
Thank you for your time. 🙂
xxxdrugfreexxx
Just saw the two episode after downloading them from iTunes (I live outside North America).
My head is spinning. More stuff happened in these two episodes than I can remember happening in two episodes in previous seasons. I’ll need to watch them again and take notes.
Am listening to Jay & Jack trying to make some sense out of everything.
Hey Ryan and Jen!
I love your Podcast! Keep up the good work!
I was so glad to have LOST come back into my life. The 8 month wait was totally worth it. One thing I did like about these two episodes is:
1. We get to see Ben interact with people that are “part of the bigger picture”,of the LOST story. ie Jill from the butcher Shop, and Ms. Hawking.
2. I love the reference to the “numbers”, as Ben pulls out the 3-42 ticket, in the butcher shop. Does the number “42” have any link to the Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy??
3. The island/lostees skipping through time should make for interesting story telling. What if when Juliet uncovers the hatch, that leads to Boone and Locke finding it?….hmm..we will see..
Mahlo!
Jonine
The thought just occurred to me.
THE WHISPERS WE’VE BEEN HEARING ARE OUR LOSTIES SKIPPING BACK AND FORTH THROUGH TIME!!!
After a twitter discussion with Chris in Boston, some more comments.
-Widmore as the soldier threatening to cut of Juliet’s hand? US Army uniform circa 1950s/60s. M1 rifle, colored name tag, olive drab uniform. British accent. “Our island”
-Is Hawking Dan’s mother? Dan doesn’t speak with an English accent.
-Donkey wheel & 4 Toed statue erected by same people
-When in time did Dan speak with Desmond? If you can’t change time, how did Des manage to suppress the encounter?
-Was Kelvin still alive when Des talked with Dan? Desmond still had the full suit, gas mask, taped gloves on. Which would put it before he saw Kelvin with the rip in his suit.
-I’m sure now it was Dan who was talking with Candle/Cheng in the Comic-Con video.
-At the end of The Lie, are Ben & Hawking in Los Angeles? If Hawking is Dan’s mom, did Desmond find and talk to her and that’s why she’s helping Ben?
More thoughts as they occur to me. Might rewatch it and make more comments.
Brain is still mush. But I’m still in until the end of S6, if only to see it all through.
More thoughts:
I honestly thought when you mentioned they were filming in a Butcher shop that it was going to be a Charlie-centric scene (wasn’t Charlie’s dad a butcher?).
Ethan was a member of DHARMA when Ben was still a kid, thus his incredulous reaction to what Locke told him. (Most ridiculous thing he’s heard because why would a young boy appoint Locke as his leader) Also explains the circa 1970s print shirt Ethan’s wearing.
Hey Ryan & Jen!!
First of all I have to say that absolutely love your podcast..My thoughts on the premiere..well it was amazing to say the least and I really enjoyed the shirtless Sawyer throughtout the premiere,Hurley’s recap,Desmond’s scenes and well Saywer in general because he is just plain awesome.Even if we don’t have any Hurley-Sawyer friendship this season I think Daniel is going to be like the new hurley for him their interactions were just hilarious..I wanted to cry when he said “Everyone I cared about just blew up on that boat” (or something like that) I have a feeling we are going to be dealing a broody sawyer this season. Love the fact that Desmond apparently is the one that can really help out the ones who are stuck in the island..Was it just me or was Sun’s retelling what happened they day they left and telling Kate that she didn’t blame her seem completely fake? It was like Sun looked guilty for like a second after Kate told her she had left her house but then it quickly went away..
Hi Ryan & Jen! Im from Argentina, I love your podcast keep up the great work!
I must say im both confused and excited about both episodes. I still don’t get the time thing, is it the Losties or the Island that keep time-travelling??
I have another theory on who might have sent the lawyers to Kate: Sun.
She suddenly appears after Kate runs, and, OMG! She’s in L.A? Many coincidences, even for LOST.. I think she either works for Withmore or for Ben, but something tells me she wants the Oceanic 6 reunited.
About the Fire-Arrows-Losties Attacked-Bech Escaping scene, I first thought that they had moved back in time to a primitive era (That would explain who built the four-toed statue and the donkey wheel) but then those guys with guns appeared so, frankly, I dont know what to think. 😛
One more theory, I think that the Island will stop moving in time once the Oceanic 6+Locke return, I dont know in whick time period It will be, but I have a feeling that it will be either in Dharma Period or at the exact time they left it.
Loved the numbers popping in thet show agai: 8:15 when Candle wakes at the very begginning of “Because You Left” and Ben’s 3-42 ticket too.
Anyway, I really enjoyed both episodes, the time-travel theme explains a lot of things, e.g the Black Rock, but also complicates them even more. But thats why we love the show isnt it? Season 5 is just starting, we’ll have to wait and see.
Im really really sorry about the spelling/verbs/phrases mistakes! Its been a while since i last wrote in English! lol
I’ve watched the episodes three times now and there are a few things that the producers will have to explain:
1) Why didn’t Desmond remember meeting Faraday at Oxford in the past?
2) If Mrs. Hawking is Desmond’s mother (not sure now) why doesn’t he have an accent? He sure sounds like he grew up in the USA. Could she be Charlotte’s mom instead. Remember Charlotte not being able to remember her mother’s maiden name? Could Charlotte and Faraday be brother/sister?
3) If Desmond is off to see Faraday’s mother at Oxford, will she be there? Or is she in LA with Ben?
4) Where did the last scene in The Lie take place? Oxford or LA? It sure looks like the monastery in England where Desmond worked and where the monk had a photo of Mrs. Hawking on his desk. If it’s at Oxford how did Ben get there so fast and how does he plan on getting back to LA to meet Jack in 6 hours. He said that he “just” lost Hugo.
5) Why did only the 815ers jump in time and not the other Others? Why did Juliet jump with them? Did the children and stewardess taken by the Others also jump?
So many questions!!
It’s bothered me that Sun would blame Ben for Jin’s “death” (yes I am firmly of the belief that our fisherman’s son survived and is treading water somewhere) when she didn’t know that it was Ben’s fault that the freighter blew up. Only two people were there: Lock and Ben. Maybe Locke told her when he came back as Bentham, but since we didn’t see that, we can’t be sure. So I like the idea that she is playing Widmore, and really blames him and is working for Ben. Even if she did learn from Locke what happened in the Orchid station, why blame Ben more than Widmore? Yes, Ben, caused the final action that led to the explosives going off, but Widmore bought and paid for those explosives and the delivered them to the island.
The other thing that still bothers me is when Sawyer is asked if all of their party is accounted for, and he says, no, Locke is missing. What about Claire? It’s been maybe two days since she wandered off, and even though we were told that he and Myles looked all over for her, he has no idea where she is and should be thinking she might be out there somewhere. Until he actually sees her dead body, I can’t believe he’d give up on her – how many times did he (along with other castaways) take off around the island to find missing friends? I get that the show wanted to focus on Locke (and it was a natural segue to jump to a scene with Locke) and they don’t want to confuse the storyline with a reference to another unsolved mystery, but I still think that Sawyer would never have forgotten to mention her when asked that question.
I also thought the fire arrows hitting everyone but our contracted cast was almost exactly like the bullets taking out all the red-shirts except Sawyer behind that picket fence. We’ve now had two battles which very neatly took out every non-major character on the island.
But where are Rose and Bernard????????????????
Please ENOUGH of the Kate and Aaron scene’s,
It’s pointless and down right painful to watch.
I don’t know what emotions they want me to feel for Kate and Aaron,
but I’m not feeling any.
I have to admit, I was ambivalent towards Ana Lucia in Season 2. But when I saw her on screen, I didn’t want to see her leave, especially when she mentioned Libby to Hurley.
@ManilaRaf
I like the idea of the whispers being the losties skipping through time… what if they keep popping up near important events, and hide in the bushes whispering to one another?
Hi guys,
Much has been said above, I believe that people that actually listen to any of the Lost podcasts are fans that will watch until the last episode. Having said that a lot of people who are not are going to have a difficult time. My wife and friends of mine who have watched the show up to now but have not invested in it either fell asleep watching (my wife) or cursed me for making them watch a show that they new from S2 that it will be too convoluted and “out there”. I must say I understand what they are saying and I believe that that it will be hard for the casual viewer to understand and follow the show. This does not make the show bad -or good but it will have an impact on the viewership I believe. As for me I felt a bit confused and I must say that I am not sold on this whole time thing. I am not saying that I am disappointed but I am not satisfied…. I am a little worried.
Very basic question, ok the island moved. I understand that, was this time shift matter a side effect of the island moving?
Ben seems to be so well connected and he apparently has an immense amount of resources at his disposal. A bit too much for a workman’s son, so I believe that there is somebody behind him. Is that Mr. Paik or somebody who we have never met?
I still do not understand how they all bought into this excuse to go back to the island, it is a little thin.
Sun’s change is a bit too much, she has turned into this super-business woman, hard and focused; I still remember her trying to escape her husband and her fears. How can you get from that to this?
The baby being fed in the beginning is probably Miles, it even looks like him 🙂
If you cannot change the past then how come Frogurt and others died on that assault, if they did not then that means that all the Losties are Gods (according to Greek mythology, God’s were the only immortal beings). I do not buy that so this has to be explained, how come people are dying in the past; they could never be in the present if they have died in the past…. ….my head is spinning
This back and forth between the different time lines is a bit too much, a bit more structure in the sequence of events would make it easier to follow. I hope they used this method in the opener for dramatic effect.
The very first scene in the butcher shop, where we see the butcher using a cleaver is almost the same scene as Charlie’s flashback (or was it a dream he had) with his -I believe- father.
If this whole story comes back a full circle to when the Losties were boarding the plane or Jack laying on his back it may not be actual purgatory but it will be in my eyes a cheap shot no matter what. I hope that the ending blows my mind away, it is the least for all the time spend on this show.
I read somewhere that Carlton or Damon had said that there wont be time travel, not sure about that, I would like to know though if they did say it.
What is the critical point between the ones that travel in time and the ones like Richard that do not?
There was only talk about saving the island from Richard, does that mean that people do not matter or that once they are there they cannot leave anyway so they are one with the island and will be save with it?
Last but least, I remember Damon had said something about the spots around the globe that have similar attributes/characteristics like the island we know. IIRC it was after the opener of S4 with the polar bear in the desert. So has the island traveled to one of these “hotspots”? Does it change positions every time it moves in time? So when the Beechcraft crashed on the island was it close to Nigeria? How does that work?
I could go on for hours (or pages) but I need to watch the two episodes again, maybe I will be able to understand a bit more.
I believe that you guys have your work cut out for you judging by all the new material that we have. Judging from the transcript above you guys rock!
So long,
Ilias
@ManilaRaf and John
I, too, had an issue with Desmond not remembering his encounter with Daniel until he wakes up from the “dream.” My theory is when this happened to Desmond originally, he assumed he had a dream. If you heard someone knocking on your door, saying a lot of weird things about his mother, and disappearing right in front of you, wouldn’t you believe you were dreaming? Desmond and Daniel had very little face to face time, so he didn’t make the connection. Granted, it’s a little coincidental that it appears he remembers it at just the right time to do something about it with Penny at his side. Perhaps I shouldn’t confuse coincidence with fate. 🙂
Sorry for all teh run ons and other grammatical errors above, I should proofread before I submit my comments.
Have a great weekend…
Hello there…
I am so happy that Lost is back…….Yes I am more confused than ever, but that wouldn’t be lost then.
My absolute favorite character is now Mrs. Hawking. I am sure someone some where may have mentioned this….But she reminds me a lot of Steven Hawking. I am not sure whose mother she is yet….but I love the link to Hawking. Steven studied at Oxford and that is where most of the mathematical equations and tests on the show are linked back too. Steven also studied black holes…radiation…and spacetime….quantum mechanics and constants…etc….
I am not sure where I am going with this yet…but as always a clock is a major theme in these two episodes…the compass, the pendulam, the moving through time, the wheel…and I could have sworn that I think it might have been in one of lockes scenes that I heard what sounded like a rhythum of a ticking clock. I am still rewatching the episode from wed. But yes I really do like Mrs. Hawking’s character.
I will post again after i finish some more thoughts. I just wanted to throw some out there…
So happy it’s back 🙂
There are some good theories posted. especially Faraday’s parents.
I especially enjoyed the scenes with the Dharma video training guy (Candle, Waxman, Chang, etc.). He was doing the ARROW Hatch training when interupted. It was one of the first training pieces, since it was 16mm FILM (not video) (60s, early 70s?). But he said, “I’ve done so many of these, I don’t need a script.” Other Hatch training has been 3/4″ U-Matic and VHS video formats (late 70s, 80s) His statement doesn’t add up.
The Willie Nelson LP being played in the background is a time clue. Remember the song skipped, as Faraday feebly explained, “the island is like it’s skipping…”
Big theory I have, Penny is the young girl (Annie) Ben befriended during the early Dharma days. She (like Ben’s daughter, Alex) is adopted. To my knowledge, we have no info on a Mrs. Charles Widmore. Can Ben really kill Penny? especially after he knows who she really is? or maybe, he kills her, then learns of of true identity.
There is a direct portal to the island. It is in Portland. That’s how Others, Mittelos and Ben come and go. The submarine is usable but is also a diversion.
Christian Shepard is somehow Jacob.
Remember, Kate’s real dad is a decorated Army specialist. We saw in the previews, “Army” personnel. “What are you doing on my island?!!!”
Hey Guys!
Love your podcast and have been listening since Season 4 and through the LONG hiatus. Anyway, if you haven’t already mentioned this, I would recommend reading several Popular Mechanics articles about the theoretical science behind LOST. There’s a new one that popped up after the Season 5 premier that helps a great deal.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/research/4300774.html
I’m on board with “John” above and have some of the same questions.
Why aren’t “The Others” time jumping with Locke? Does it have to do with the “vaccine” (which is of course not a vaccine in the traditional sense at all)?
Why is Charlotte the only one (so far) suffering from effects of time jumping? What about Miles?
I don’t think Mrs. Hawking is Daniel’s mother either – only because she doesn’t appear to be at Oxford where Daniel sent Desmond. But who knows?
So much to think about – must watch this again!
Something very weird happened in the opening scenes of the first episode, and I haven’t seen anyone mention it on any discussions.
When Dr. Candle first is awakened in the bed (just before the needle is placed on the record) the woman with him looks very much like a younger version of Sun? At first I thought I was imagining things – until the next scene when Candle is sitting in front of the camera. The camera operator looks EXACTLY like a younger version of Sawyer!
What makes me think there is something to this is that the camera man is shown twice – as though the director really wants us to see the resemblance.
Did anyone else notice this???
Bill said:
“Big theory I have, Penny is the young girl (Annie) Ben befriended during the early Dharma days. She (like Ben’s daughter, Alex) is adopted. To my knowledge, we have no info on a Mrs. Charles Widmore. Can Ben really kill Penny? especially after he knows who she really is? or maybe, he kills her, then learns of of true identity.”
I don’t think that’s likely. Ben was born sometime in the early 1960’s which makes him around 45-48 years old. Annie would be about the same age. Penny is clearly in her 30’s as is Desmond.
@Mindstage
I noticed the resemblance Sawyer. For a second I was SURE it was Sawyer behind the camera and I had a mild freakout. Then I realized it was joke played on me by the producers.
The Sawyer fake-out made the Faraday sighting more of shock when it happened.
John, but wasn’t Annie much younger than Ben? How does anything date Desmond or Penny? I certainly know people who “look” older or younger than they really are.
As you’ve learned by now, the producers/writers of LOST can do about anything they want.
“Why is there a dead Pakistani on my couch?”–Hurley’s mom. Too funny, as was Hurley’s comment to Sayid about how he would not need to kill people so much if he just ate more comfort food.
This just confirms my long-held belief that Desmond is the key. I just hope he doesn’t go the way of Sydney Carton on “A Tale of Two Cities” by his favorite author because I would be totally bummed if Des and Penny did not have things end well for them.
Looking forward to the first seaon 5 podcast Ryan and Jen!
Great beginning to season 5, haven’t watched the ep a second/third time yet, maybe reading comments and re-watching will help. I think the whispers are island people (hostiles & others) that talk to one another – backwards – remember the scene last ep season 4 when they killed the heli people, lots of whispers before the attack.
Thanks Ryan & Jen for your podcast & the island insite you bring to us
Ben might have sent the sleazy lawyer and his assistant to Kate for the blood sample to take her out of her comfort zone and get her on the run again. Maybe the only safe place for her and Aaron will be on the island.
What we’ve learned…
Time & Records: The island is stuck in a time-space paradox… Ben flicked the switch (or donkey wheel) to send the island to a different location. But the island, like a piece of software, became corrupted in that the Oceanic-6 are critical to the island’s software. The island’s time-space continuum is corrupted. So the island has safely jumped space, but it can’t lock in a specific time.
So @Jason, the island is gone (as shown in last seasons finale), but the island has determined the Lost peeps as a final lines of code (with 6 missing digits) as the problems with restoring stability. Time is jumping so fast, trying to find the spot when the Oceanic-6 return in order to “course correct” itself, as Mrs. Hawkins stated in Flashes Before Your Eyes.
-Z
PS: More to come, working on analysis right now.
Question: If all bodies were accounted for when the plane was “discovered”, how did they explain the Oceanic 6 when they were obviously alive?
Comment: I thought it was HILARIOUS that Ana Lucia said “Don’t get arrested”. A little inside joke perhaps?
Locke, Ethan & Alpert: It appears that Alpert always knew that John Locke would be the ‘chosen one’ of the island when Ethan shot Locke and watched him disappear. Ethan must’ve informed Alpert, the island’s steward, of a man who appeared on the island but disappeared. As informed by what Alpert said, Locke will give Alpert the compass and tell him the situation: time is falling apart, and the island has no future unless Locke leaves the island and dies for it.
I feel like I need to apologize to Locke… he doesn’t screw up as a leader and gets banished as I stated the last time I posted. He dies as a leader, trying to save everyone on the island by returning the Oceanic-6 to the island. My theory is that when Locke returns to the island, you will see his resurrection as an Island Spirit.
I wonder why Walt does not have to come back with the other 6? Any ideas on this? Does anyone think we are now seeing “The Incident” or is that something that will occur at the hatch? What is happening to the people at “The Temple”? Are they traveling too?
@paintergirl1, ManilaRaf and John: I like your thought Paintergirl that maybe Desmond thought it was a dream he had had instead of an experience…I am assuming of course at this time Des was only getting a few hours of sleep at a time and things would run together because of the button…but that being said…this must have been a time when the other guy was still in the hatch w/ him…
I’ve also wondered that maybe when they come back to the island they could arrive at any time. If Des or someone else goes to the hatch do you think that they will be “Him” and answer the riddle correctly? Maybe Locke will do it this time or Des….hmmm….
Brian ~ Atlanta
Oh yeah – – are we also dealing with “The Ageless Ethan” as well as Alpert?
Hurley and Sayid: I think it’s safe to assume that the men that attacked Sayid and Hurley were Ben’s men. If they were Witmore’s they would’ve used bullets and not tranquilizers. Another reason to assume this as fact is when Jack tells Ben that he has Sayid. Ben’s expression is of stern concern. Not the face of someone who’s excited that the plan is going well.
Ben and Hurley: LMAO!
Ben and Ms. Hawkins: I’ve read many assumptions about Ms. Hawkins up above. That she’s Faraday’s mother, or something like that. Well, that just can’t be true because why would Faraday send Desmond to Oxford when Ms. Hawkins is in Los Angeles? Nice try though… About Ms. Hawkins, did anyone see the stone wall next to her computers? Did they not look like Island Hieroglyphics?
One more crazy thought: Does anyone think that Jack may be Jacob? Only becuase of the tatoos and what they mean from “Stranger in a Strange Land”. If a memory can ‘wipe’ like perhaps Alperts mentions his memory then maybe Jack/Jacob has orchestrated all of this…I am sorry for the random repeated posts –
A final PS: Ryan, I keep hearing you on CNET’s Buzz Out Loud, why don’t you plug the Transmission?! I’m sure Tom Merrit knows about your show, he’s a big Lost geek like us.
Ryan and Jen, I just wanted to let you know how much I enjoy your podcast.
O.K. so my thoughts on these episodes are that Mrs. Hocking is Daniel’s mom. However, I don’t understand and can’t wait to learn why she is working with Ben. I felt she was evil the first time we saw her since she wanted to keep Desmond from Penny and wanted him to keep pushing the button. But why she is working with Ben just confuses me. I’m so glad that Sayid came to his senses and quit working for Ben, and I’m more happy that Hurley escaped into the safety of the cops. No matter how many times he says it Ben is not “one of the good guys”.
Just want to post some further thoughts that I’ve had. Some of them occurred on my commute on public transportation and made sure to write them down immediately in my Moleskine.
-One the way to the Swan Hatch, Miles tells Charlotte “It took Widmore 20 years to find the island THE FIRST TIME, I’ll start holding my breath.” The way he said it makes me think that Widmore is Hanso. He looked for it, ended up on it as Hanso, got kicked off or left, and his search for it now is his 2nd search for the island.
-Charlotte says she hasn’t had nosebleeds since she was a kid. Theory: She’s a child of the island who time travelled as a kid, found a constant as a child and got back in the timeline. Crackpot Theory: She’s Pvt Jones’ kid.
-Anyone else notice the parallels with the lawyer scene with Kate. One LOSTie being confronted by a “soft” stranger, accompanied by a “hard” stranger, requesting for blood. Compare this to Michael, Bea Klugh, & Pickett. Just saw a parallel when they took blood from Michael and his being asked if Walt was his kid.
One more wacky cracky theory:
-Sawyer & Juliet are Adam & Eve.
Another Wacky Cracky Theory (one even more so):
What if the people on the Island are Time Traveling? What IF THE ISLAND ITSELF IS THE ONE TIME TRAVELING. The island is manifesting past and future iterations of itself (events, people, etc) to our LOSTies. The island has become unstuck in time due to the Donkey Wheel being turned. Our LOSTies aren’t unstuck, but due to the size of the island, can’t help but be affected by it. And the reason why the Oceanic 6+ have to go back is because they are The Island’s constant(s). They were there before the wheel turned and must be there to stop the Island being unstuck. The 70 hours is the limit before The Island “loses itself” and dies much like Minkowski did.
It’s a reach, and I just thought of it in the last 10 minutes. What do you guys think?
That should read as “What if the people on the Island AREN’T Time Traveling.” D’oh!
@ Mindstage…I thought Dr. Candles wife looked like Sun’s mother, but need to rewatch the episode.
LOVED when Hurley threw the Hot Pocket at Ben, LOL!
Love all the comments and theories!
I’ve missed you guys!!!!! Can’t wait for the cast 🙂
Kinda in a rush, so don’t I don’t have time to rework my thoughts this week. So I’ll do a couple of separate rough chunks of thought.
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So this is what I’m thinking about the ComicCon video. From what we saw yesterday, I think that the video was made at New Otherton right around the time that we see Chang doing the video. I’m thinking that Daniel took the opportunity to intervene during one of the time jumps (getting directions from his own notes) and that’s why he is the voice in the video. There is a chance that the identity of the baby is not significant (althought if it is, I’m on the it’s Miles team) but just a way for us to know that this time matched the time on that video.
Which means that given Daniel’s description that you cannot change time… what happened to Chang? If he believed Daniel, he obviously was unable to prevent the purge. Did he not believe Daniel and maybe do the video at gunpoint? Did he leave before the purge? During the early years of the DI? I mean there seems to be quite a long time span between the ComicCon video and the purge… WTF? We know that he does not leave right away because he is not done with all the orientation videos and the hatch’s orientation refers to an “accident” that created the need for the button to be pushed. From his reaction at the Orchid site, this accident has not yet happenend…
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I struggling a bit with the idea of whether to trust whatever Daniel says. I’m kind of leaning towards the idea that Daniel will have the right answers, but perhaps not the complete answers, if that makes any sense. I think that from a narrative POV, Daniel’s role is to serve as Bill Nye and explain the science to the viewer. If we start assuming that he could be mistaken, then we loose that anchor and pretty much anything goes. On the other hand, I do want to keep an open mind and there is definitely the issue of how to reconcile Daniel’s pronouncements with what we get from Darlton…
The only thing that makes me question whether Ms Hawking is Dan’s mom is that it seems a bit too obvious. But perhaps it is that simple, given the promise that TPTB would provide answers throught the season and not wait till the end. So if she is her mom, there is a chance that she is working in concert with him. More like she has access to tools that Daniel does not and vice versa. Although that would make for some sort of interesting Ben and Daniel are on the same “side” kind of situation.
Anyway, a lot of what I’ll be posting about time will be based on assumption that Daniel is correct, but may have incomplete info and that she is his mother.
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Some people are speculating that the course correction allusion means that as loong as certain events happen, then a traveler from the future might be able to chance things leading up to that event. To create a different path to it. I’ve always had a problem with these type of statements whenever time travel is part of a plotline. If I really consider what the statement Whatever Happened Happened means, I can help thinking that then everything must remain the same, down to the last sneeze or butt scratch. So there would not be a different way to get to the same event. This would jive with Daniel’s string analogy, because any deviation, however small would create another branch (sorry to mix metaphors). The two fundamental issues that arise in my mind are:
1) If were were to assume, that the path to a particular outcome is changeable, what determines which events must happen and which are ok to change? Is it OK to wear a blue shirt instead of a green one on my way to get run over by a car, as long as I get run over by that car? or should we treat every event, no matter how insignificant, as a potential instance of a butterfly flapping it’s wings?
2) How horrible would it be for someone to travel to the past with the intention of affecting the future when in reality they would never be able to accomplish it. It is a doomed enterprise from the start and the futility of it somehow makes me very sad.
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Liked, not loved, the opening scene. Question: P. Chang gets up and puts on the record, heats up the bottle, feeds the baby, & dresses for work. The record starts skipping shortly after “Shotgun Willie” (c.1973) chorus – about 1min. Or, the album plays all the way through it’s entirety several times, auto replays, and then starts to skip. I was thinking that Mrs. Candle must be a sound sleeper or deaf to put up with either the loud music and/or the skipping. Did you find this odd? Track 5 entitled “Slow Down Old World.”
Nice new Dharma van.
P. Chang’s behavior seems to have humbled a bit by the time he is filmed by Daniel (Comic Con). Also, he’s hand wringing can be compared to Locke’s leg problem with Boone at Yemi’s plane. I think we will see Mr. Jones’s group take off Dr. Candles’ hand.
“Limitless energy” answers Daniel’s question “where does all this power come from?”
The original building at the Swan Station was a large, modern concrete structure. Going to be fun watching this blow up. The Incident may be the point of departure for the island time hopping now. Although, the lodging of the ‘donkey wheel’ into the exotic matter must have had a similar effect. Who stopped the hopping then?
If it took Widmore 20 years to find the island ‘the first time’ then he was ousted in 1988? He looks 60 ish today. The Chang/Faraday film was made in 1978 (“you will receive this 30 years in the future”). So Widmore would be about 30 years old when Faraday sneaks into the Swan Station. If he is in charge at 30, I would be very surprised.
Is the Arrow Station really empty? Who left the box with the eye, bible and radio to be found by Tailees?
Rose was at the church with the donkey wheel turned. Is she going to be the spiritual voice of our group so that Locke can be the scientist he was meant to be?
Will a four-toed Sawyer (see foot injury) be our Classic Hero, flash jump to 480 BC (Colossus) and con the original inhabitants into thinking he’s a god?
Dan Farady calls Sawyer ‘James’ on the walk to the hatch ‘back door.” Faraday was introduced to Sawyer by Miles (“he’s our physicist”). But I don’t think Sawyer gave his name. Does Daniel know James Ford from another time?
Hooded Miles, hooded Mrs. Hawkings.
Odd sound effect: Locke pulls his knife out of leather sheaf, but we hear metal grating. A mistake?
Another inconsistency . .. Doctor Wizard conveniently leaves his pack at the sight of Swan Station hatch exit, but he says “I left my pack at the crater” (in this flash with hatch was back).
Locke’s conversation with Alpert was instructional, “What goes around comes around.” and “You’re going to be moving on soon.” 1) clean your wounds every couple of hours and keep weight off (Is he a doctor/surgeon, carrying a first aid kit, pretty quick removal of bullet) 2) give the compass to me when you see me next. (This is a french compass and not the same as in flash back to young John), 3) the only way to save the island is to get your people back, 4) you’re going to have to die, John. Alpert and Linus and same speech patterns, creepy and manipulative.
Ethan Rom is way creepier than Ben. So, Yemi’s plane crashes into the island. Ethan is sent by Other’s or Dharma’s leader to kill any survivors? Like Henry Gale? ‘Cause he clearly didn’t want to talk. He wings Locke in the leg and before he can finish the job “Bloop”John Locke disappears. Does he report this to his leader? Locke’s pain transcending time, not space.
Miles can talk to dead animals.
Say it isn’t so . . . Frogart falls to fatal fire from falling arrow. STOP, DROP and ROLL people.
Wonder what Simon Pace kept in his freezer?
Jack’s utterance, “they’re no my friends anymore” echo of Locke to Desmond.
Epi, Brill and Jeffery? is that the names you heard Ben ask Jill about?
I think Sayid has gone rogue. He is definitely being hunted by either/or all Ben and Widmore, and the Economist. He takes on the job of keeping Hurley safe, maybe at the request of Bentham/Locke? The number 72 on a man’s jersey in the parking lot with over-the-rail dead guy. A double dude moment. The ol’ playing possum-skillet to the head trick, followed by a follow up knife-killing dishwasher.
Sayid’s wallet had foreign paper currency and either a letter or photo.
Has anyone called Jack?
Aaron’s cartoon “Choo Choo Tunnel? Kate says “If he goes in the tunnel, he’s never coming back out.” matches the image of the tunnel drawn in Faraday’s notebook. And while I’m on Aaron, that whole punching the button scene in the elevator made me think that he was in training for future Swan Station duty. Floor 31
“You’ve got work to do.” Christian in the guise of Ana Lucia. Ana Lucia is also in an instructive mood like Alpert 1) you need new clothes, 2) go to a safe place and take Sayid to someone you know, 3) say away from the cops, do not get arrested, and “Libby says, hi.” The fact that he has to make a decision between he ghost helpers and Ben may be a pivotal plot point for Hurley. He clearly wants nothing to do with Ben per Sayid’s instructions. But how will he be freed from custody in under 70 hours? Prison Break?
The one last thing that I want to mention outside of the plot points is the new technique for transitioning between on-island and off-island. The flash forward, flash backward style has changed. What I noticed is the use of a word or phrase by someone initiates editor’s cut. For example, when asked who in the on-island group was unaccounted for Sawyer say “Locke.” Cut to Locke in the gully. Hurley yells “Never should have left that island!” Cut to on-island group. Juliet explaining to Miles about Desmond in the hatch pushing the button every 108 minutes to save the world, cut to flash/jump to Desmond in the hatch. Daniel tells Desmond “go back to Oxford where we met and find my mother, cut/jump t Desmond on boat ‘remembering’ this conversation. Hurley, “Someday your going to need my help, dude, and your not getting it.” cut/jump to Sayid in the car with Hurley where he is indeed getting help. Juliet “I guess I’ll go for water.” cut/jump to Hurley throwing water in Sayid’s face. And finally, Neil [I heart u] “We can’t even get fire, swoosh the flamming arrows.
I was wondering if you notice this and if you like this new device. I thought that it like having the hiccups. I know that the writers do not do things without a reason. So here’s what I think. . . like when Hurley closes his eye’s and wishes something to go away or change, we may be getting a clue as to how one can control when and where one moves around in time on the island. So when Hurley squeezed his eye’s tight and wish the cabin away, he actually moved in time.