There’s No Place Like Home - Parts 2 and 3
We’re spent. It may just be the shock of the final reveal (and the exploding and disappearing and everything else), but I’m putting this season’s finale as the best yet. Oh, there was a big giant Pandora’s box or two opened, and the requisite handful of new nagging questions, but in terms of delivering a dramatic punch, a full sprint of plot and action, and major pointers as to the mythological direction of “LOST,” we couldn’t have asked for more. Every strength of the show was serviced tonight, and the only downside to this high is the inevitable crash tomorrow. We’ll have to wait more than seven months to pick up where we left off.
And I do think we will move forward, now, from the near present. Perhaps even the true present. (No issues with Walt’s age, now.) Mr. Bentham’s ominous tale of how things went south on the island after the Oceanic Six escaped perfectly sets up the island as flashback territory… the clever inverse of the first three seasons. But I’m getting ahead of myself.
Ben turned the wheel and moved the island, a mind-boggling action that also comes with another rule: whoever invokes the measure of last resort “can’t” return. We also know from his arm injury that he goes straight from the deep Earth chamber to the desert of Tunisia. We see how the Oceanic Six come together and get off the island, and also the setup for their return. We see Sawyer sacrifice himself after a smooch that no doubt gave shippers a thrill, but we also see Desmond and Penny reunited — the kiss of the whole show, bar none. And we finally learn who was in the coffin.
Jen is immensely relieved to learn who was in the coffin. She demanded to know, out loud, every ten minutes during the last hour of the finale. Considering that Season 1 left us looking down a mysterious hatch, even I was convinced until the very last moment that they just might go there… the just might leave us hanging. And we both wouldn’t have guessed who Mr. Bentham turned out to be.
Jen’s also convinced that Jin is dead. I have to admit, it looks pretty dire. He does have a couple of things going for him, though. One, Sun is convinced enough of his possible survival that she’s going to engage in some pretty big corporate shenanigans with Charles Widmore. Two, just like the three gunshots that were supposed to have robbed us of Jin, Sayid and Bernard on the beach, I don’t think any “off-screen deaths” have really stuck. Hell, on-screen deaths don’t stick. (At least Keamy’s sudden reappearance got a token explanation.) With Locke apparently going back as carry-on luggage, after all, his story is obviously not done. Look at what happened with the last person Jack transported in a coffin.
For all the big details, though, it’s the little things that made tonight’s episode so satisfying. The way the episode opened at the exact moment Season 3 ended (tires screeching with the quick fade to black). Hurley’s awkward greeting for Jack, and real gratitude to Sawyer for coming back for him. Locke’s confidence with Jack (”Just watch what I’m about to do”) but befuddlement with anthuriums. The way Michael released Jin to be a father, and the way the island finally released him. The way Ben… did everything, from referencing time-traveling bunnies to the utterly cold way he reacted to dooming the freighter. Miles’ scolding from Rose, and cryptic message for Charlotte, who almost instantly becomes the new character whose story we’re desperate to hear.
Too many great moments to mention. With our minds spinning, we’re simply reduced to bullet points.
Notes and Notions:
- The conversation between Jack and Locke goes to the very heart of the overall “LOST” story arc. If you haven’t recently revisited the conversation mentioned tonight, from the episode “White Rabbit,” you should read it again. And remember, that was Season 1, Episode 5.
- What is Sun up to? Helping Mr. Widmore, or duping him? The why, at least, seems pretty clear. But she’s right, the Oceanic Six weren’t the only ones that got off the island. And joining Ben in the bonus set are Frank and Desmond.
- Locke’s pseudonym off island was Jeremy Bentham. Philosopher, yes. Also a guy who willed his body to be put on display. It’s still in a glass case at University College London.
- Hurley’s mention of Mr. Eko was a nice touch, because I do sometimes get the sense that there are parts of the show’s past that they’d rather we just forget.
- The moment you heard Sayid’s voice at the car window, you knew that guy was toast. And of course his time of death was 8:15.
- More Sawyer nicknames, from “Sundance” for Jack to “Kenny Rogers” for Frank. And… shirtless on a beach with a pretty lady and a bottle of rum? It’s fanfic time.
- What happened to Daniel and his boatload of socks (or redshirts or background)? Are they stranded? Or, since “Alcatraz” apparently went with the main island, could they have gone along for the ride as well?
- Jack officially has a musical motif (along with Kate’s Patsy Cline). His last drive to the funeral parlor showed us his appreciation for “Nirvana.” Tonight, he rocked his way out to the big reveal with “The Pixies.”
- Yeah, so that was the “Frozen Donkey Wheel.” Ha ha. How literal and clever! Can we go back to metaphors for the next big twist?
A year ago, when we were similarly left stunned by the Season 3 finale, I wrote: “Suddenly I’m willing to entertain even the most ridiculous, crack-pot theories. Because I have no idea where ‘LOST’ will take us next.” I am still happily along for the ride.
And Jen wrote: “Season 3 of Lost, to me, is one of the best seasons of television ever.” And Season 4 tops that.
May 29th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
i can’t wait till SEASON 5 and see what happened on the island I do think that the boat people might of been saved because of the whole time difference with the island. We know Locke isn’t totally gone because Christian Shepperd was seen again even if he is dead or alive John Locke will be back. Great to see Walt as well.
May 29th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
The best season finale of this show… SIMPLY AWESOME.
The best part: finding out Desmond’s fate.
The best line: “yes, John, time-traveling bunnies”.
More later.
May 29th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
wow!!
des and penny’s reunion was one of if not the best scene of all 4 seasons so far.
great ending to the season.
May 29th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Unbelievable….I can’t even come up with a post that adds more than that yet. Wow!
May 29th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
So I looked up Octagon, and what is happening July 24th-27th in San Diego?
Mind blowing ending…
So the tsunami was caused by the island moving? Is that how it happened?
All sorts of questions now. It is going to be a good week before I can wrap my brain around of all this.
And if Michael Emmerson doesn’t get an Emmy from this season, something is completely wrong.
May 29th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
Wow! One episode has my favorite scene ever and also kills off my favorite character.
The Penny/Desmond reunion is what we have all wanted to see. It was wonderful. As much as I like Kate with Jack, this was better.
Locke dead. Oh my God. How did he get off the island? When did he die in the time sequence? Can he be brought back to life?
What about Claire. Is she dead? Is she the actress whom we will not see all of next season?
Unfortunately I read the spoilers and I knew most of what happened. It was still great, but I wish I hadn’t known in advance.
May 29th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
We are watching a special show here people. Let’s enjoy, while it lasts.
May 29th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
@ Phil R
Agreed. Michael Emerson is an awesome actor. He really has taken this show to another level.
Loved seeing the Penny/Desmond reunion. I hope this isn’t the last of Desmond. He has become my favorite character over the last 2 seasons.
May 29th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
agree about Michael Emerson. his performances just keep getting better and better
May 29th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
Wow, so many ideas running through my head after that show. One thing I’ve been thinking of, maybe Charlotte is Annie’s daughter…
Trying to get the Octagon webpage to load now, surely it’s getting hammered!
May 29th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Ok, wow…
there is so much to take it, but I think that my main “question” from the finale is….what happened to Dan at the 5 people with him on the little motor boat???
May 29th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
About the Octagon website dates:
being a Lost dork, I remember watching stuff from previous lost seasons come from Comic Con which always took place in San Diego..
so i put two and two together and went to the comic-con site and what do you know, it takes place July 24-27.
May 29th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Maybe Locke isn’t really dead. Here’s a thought I’ve been working on… What if, when 815 crashed, because of the weird time travel thing, maybe a “double,” was made of everyone who crashed, including Christian, even though he was dead? Perhaps when the plane crashed into whatever kind of “barrier,” was protecting the island, somehow duplicates were made of each person? I don’t know, just a theory! I loved the Kate “dream,” too. Scared me….
May 29th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
@Phil R
Comic-Con is on those dates in SD. Great idea about the island moving and the tsunami, especially the way we saw it simply blip off the face of the planet and leave a ripple of water.
Sawyer’s selfless act contrasted with Jack’s ‘I’m going to save you all’ - incredible juxtaposition.
John Locke. Didn’t expect that prior to this episode, but when he told Jack that he had to make up a story, it was pretty clear after Kate said what she did in the first scene at the airport.
Sun working in concert with Widmore? Or is that a ruse? I doubt the writers would cast her as working with the apparent baddies. Her angst at losing Jin was palpable in the helicopter/boat explosion scene. I’ve never been sympathetic to her character, but I was there.
Ben stabbing Keamy to death - you felt a little vindication for Ben. Until he said, ‘So what?’ to Locke’s concern for those on the boat.
Walt back again. And Locke was the only one to go see him. And now Michael is dead.
Speaking of which, Michael and Jin and then Locke, all dead. Wow. Last season it was the Others body count that was sky high… this season, it was our Losties. How things come full circle.
May 29th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
WOW… now that was a season ender! I found myself needing to mute the commercials because my brain just couldn’t handle any more stimuli. I think I’m going to anticipate season five even more than the second one!
best.finale.ever.
May 29th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
Hi Ryan and Jen!
So much to process….. but my first thoughts are…
Just like we thought in Season 1 that the final scene of the show would be the survivors getting off the island, as of late I’ve been thinking/hoping that the final scene of the show would be the Desmond/Penny reunion. And whaddya know, the producers gave us that tonight! I can’t wait to see what’s in store for Season 5.
Love the podcast, can’t wait to hear this one. I won’t be on a plane listening this time!
Take care and thanks for the great blog and podcasts.
Best Regards,
Mike in VA
May 29th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
I didn’t rate this episode very high and I admit it was an emotional response on my part. As a whole the episode was excellent, but having Locke be the man in the coffin ruined it all for me. He is my favorite character and even though we’ll surely see him next year in terms of how things went so badly on the island after they left, it still remains that Locke is dead. He may resurrect on the island like Jack’s father and perhaps Claire, but he is still dead in the corporal form.
I am still very afraid that the whole show will end with all of them on the plane, crashing and dying OR with them all in Australia deciding not to take the flight. Once time travel comes into play, it could be the thing that resolves the whole show and that would be a major disappointment for me.
If they can take the island to another time and place, maybe they can take it back before the crash.
I am very worried about the direction of the show for the last two seasons.
May 29th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Wow!! That was incredible. One thing that stood out to me was Claire’s warning not to come back to the island. I wondered why that was at the time since all the other “ghosts” have told the others to come back. Now, with Jack saying at the end that Locke told him things have gone bad, it is clear that Claire doesn’t want harm to come to Aaron.
So much information to process, unfortunately we have until next February to think things over.
May 29th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Season 4 finale was well worth the wait!!! I loved every min of it. My fav scenes are:
1. Hurley in santa rosa, playing chess with Mr. Echo (?) and not at all suprised to see Syaid.
2. Sun approaching Widmore in London and calling his bluff about not knowing who she is and that she was on the island and got off of it.
3. Ben’s moving the island and then showing up at the funeral home to suprise Jack.
4. Finding out that Lock was in the coffin!!!
May 29th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
Octagon, thats a cool tie in to the Dharma logo. Jorge Garcia and Michael Emerson will both get nominated and Michael will win. Thats my crackpot theory and I’m sticking to it. Oh wait, wrong podcast.
May 29th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
Hi Ryan and Jen,
Thanks for providing a forum for us to discuss our reactions to the finale. My own wild speculation is that Jin is in fact still alive. I can think of no other reason to have Daniel floating in a raft in the middle of the ocean except to recover Jin. At first I thought it would be too cruel a thing to do to Sun, letting her believe that her husband was dead, and that the writers would not torture her that way. However, if she is now turning to the darkside and working with Widmore, that sets up a very interesting redemption arc. The torture would be justified if it became a significant turn in the narrative.
cheers, and looking forward to the podcast.
May 29th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
OMG - I’m on the east coast, this episode ended more than two hours ago for me, and my head is still spinning…
Some thoughts…
I love that we got so many answers and saw so many pieces get tied together in this episode. Very, very satisfying.
Kate’s dream of Claire really freaked me out. So did the sight of Christian Shepard showing up on the boat. Leads me to believe that Locke’s death might lead him to a very active earthly afterlife.
I cried when I felt Sun’s horror of leaving Jin behind (well-acted by Yunjin Kim). Whatever she has in mind for Widmore, I hope it’s a great big double-cross.
What, exactly, did Sawyer whisper in Kate’s ear before he jumped? Did he ask her the thing that we all expect (i.e., find Clementine), or did he throw in something unexpected? (With these writers, after all, you never really know…)
I LOVED when Keamy and his band of thugs got ambushed by the others. Sayid the Ninja strikes again!!!
I thought the Desmond-Penny reunion was too restrained. They’ve waited YEARS for this, and they were so calm about it.
Now that Desmond’s off the island and he’s sticking to Penny like glue, how is Widmore going to deal with him?
What was Charlotte and Miles referring to when they made reference to her being there before? She’s too young to be part of the original Dharma Initiative, unless she’s one of those never-aging types like Richard Alpert.
What else is in her backstory? What exactly is her connection to the island?
So WHERE did the island go? Is Juliet back to square one in terms of leaving it? Will she reunite with the Others, and if so, what will the consequences of her shifting alliances be?
Why was Locke so convinced that EVERYONE has to go back? What horrible thing happened back on the island? Will the remaining Losties survive it, whatever it is?
Did Daniel and the Zodiac crew make it back to the island?
I loved it when Rose told Miles that she was going to keep an eye on him.
And finally…
I sure am glad they found yet another way for Sawyer to take off his shirt!!
May 29th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
While the closing scene felt like a dud to me, I’m terribly saddened at the idea that Locke lost everything again. I mean, talk about a guy who has had the WORST life. I wont even go into the details of his past misfortunes, but come on!
If I may add, the following season will be an interesting twist of the shows format: this time the island and what happens on the island AFTER the Oceanic-6 left will be the flashbacks, while the hunt for the island will be in present time. That is, the back story will be the islands history instead of each characters history. Any thoughts? Too soon for Seasons 5 talk?
Also, ain’t it a sweet “Wife Swap”: Jack gets Kate, and–I’m sure of this–Juliette gets Sawyer… don’t believe this, I have one word for you: RUM.
-Mr. Z
May 29th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
So…”frozen donkey wheel” literally meant frozen donkey wheel…whodathunkit?
May 29th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Jeremy Bentham (from Wikipedia): He is best known for his advocacy of utilitarianism, for the concept of animal rights, and his opposition to the idea of natural rights, with his oft-quoted statement that the idea of such rights is “nonsense upon stilts.” As requested in his will, his body was preserved and stored in a WOODEN CABINET, termed his “Auto-icon”.
Second source: “Utilitarianism as such does nothing to protect Individual Rights. Bentham himself is quite explicit about this, since he rejects the dominant British natural rights tradition that went back at least to John Locke and in Bentham’s own lifetime had been embodied in the United States Constitution. Nevertheless, Bentham calls it all “Nonsense on stilts.”
May 29th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
Wow! I have to agree with the consensus that this was the best LOST finale ever.
A few comments…
1) This episode confirms to me that Claire is, in fact, dead. People just don’t show up like that in this show unless they’re dead–Boone, Jack’s dad, Yemi, Charlie. I think the Island can use the image (and possibly body) of anyone who dies on the Island to communicate with others. The one exception to this seems to be Walt, who can be in two places at once without being dead (as in Season 2) but he is, after all, special.
2) Sun says to Widmore that they have common interests. We can assume that means finding the Island, but I wonder if it’s something more sinister. Does she blame Jack, along with her father, for losing Jin? If so, would she want some sort of revenge?
3) Locke moved the island, as expected. The question is: did it move in space, time, or both? The Orchid video showed them planning to send a rabbit a few milliseconds into the future, which would cause it to disappear…could the same have happened to the Island itself, on a larger scale? Could it have been sent into the future too?
Love the podcast, you guys. Can’t wait to hear this week’s. I’m going to go continue my hopeless quest to wrap my head around that episode after only one viewing. Later.
–Luke
May 29th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
OK…Great season ender. The only thing worse than being in Alaska and seeing it four hours later than the East Coast is being in Hawaii and seeing it 5? 6? hours later. Just kidding, Ryan and Jen. Patience is a virtue, right? ;O)
Random thoughts:
What are they feeding poor Aaron? Without Clair, the kid has got to be starving!
Yunjin Kim’s performance when the boat exploded was riveting and emotionally wrenching. I was speechless (unusual for me).
Desmond, Penny and Frank will go into hiding. I don’t know what they will do about Penny’s crew. Perhaps they will keep looking for the Island.
I don’t believe that Clair actually came to Kate to warn her away from the Island. I think that dream was Kate’s subconscious telling her what she wants to hear. My own theory about Clair is that she suffered internal injuries when her house exploded that grew worse and she died in her sleep. That’s when she saw Christian. Couldn’t tell you what happened to her body or how Aaron got out into the forest
Charlotte may be Annie (although she seems a bit young). She’s looking for where she was born…hmmm.
I agree with Stacey from NC…shirtless Sawyer…yummy!
I think Miles and Charlotte know that the Island is definitely NOT an island. They talked about staying like they weren’t worried about what was going to happen. Rather they seemed anxious to find out more about the Island’s properties/secrets.
Christian telling Michael that he “can go now”…what was that? The Island releasing it’s grip on Michael and finally letting him die? The Island evidently only needed the O6 plus Frank and Des to get off the boat safely….or maybe it wanted to keep Daniel and his boatload of 815′ers off the freighter. Hmmm.
Was totally shocked to see Locke in the coffin. All this time I was convinced it was Michael. Right before Jack opened the coffin I was sure it was Ben. Then Ben shows up! To see John in the coffin was a big surprise. He must have learned Ben’s hidey hole secrets on how to get on and off the Island.
Loved how the writers brought in a lot of characters we have been wondering about…Walt, Clair, Richard, the Others, Penny, Widmore. Looking forward to the discussion.
May 29th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
Luke-Did Locke move the Island or did Ben move the Island? I was a bit confused about the whole Orchid station brouhaha. Ben told Locke how to get down to the lower level, but Locke would have had no clue about how to get to the “frozen donkey wheel” (LOVE IT!) and actually move the Island. So what was Ben’s real plan? Did he know he would have to escape and return to the Orchid with John. Ben could have done it without John because John didn’t actually do anything…Ben could have told him about Richard and the Others while they were traipsing through the woods.
May 29th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
octagonglobalrecruiting.com/
Anyone catch that ad on there? the dates happen to be Comic-Con in San Diego.
May 29th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
BTW, Sayid’s break dancing ninja skills FTW!
May 29th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Watching certain scenes at the moment, can anyone get a translation from the phone call that Kate received? The words seem to be backwards.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
Kate’s Backward Phonecall: “The Island needs you. You have to go back before it’s too late.”
http://www.losteastereggs.blogspot.com
May 29th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
So all of them have to go back? Does that include Aaron? And why the need to bring back a dead guy?
May 29th, 2008 at 10:27 pm
Whew! What an ep! One word: BADASS.
I’m SO glad they told us who was in the coffin — I was convinced they were going to make us wait ’til S5! And while they gave us cliffhangers to chew on during the off-season, I can live with what we got in the finale . . . meaning, lots of answers and lots of zingers! Here are my faves:
SAWYER: “What the hell are they talkin’ about over there, anyway?”
HURLEY: “I dunno. Leader stuff?”
….
“Well, Jack, you put a gun to my head, and you pulled the trigger. I was hoping we could let bygones be bygones.”
- Locke
…
BEN: “Couldn’t find the anthurium, could you.”
LOCKE: “I don’t know what they look like!”
…
“Lie to them, Jack. If you do it half as well as you lie to yourself, they’ll believe you.”
- Locke (OUCH!)
…
ROSE: “Uh, who told you you could eat those peanuts?”
MILES: (pause) “May I — May I eat these peanuts?”
ROSE: “I’m gonna keep my eye on you, shorty.”
…
“You know what, John, why don’t you watch this informative video that will answer some of your questions. I’ll take care of some business.”
- Ben
…
“Dude, I’ve been having regular conversations with dead people. The last thing I need now is paranoia.”
- Hurley
…
“Sometimes, good command decisions get compromised by bad emotional responses.
- Ben
. . . And, of course, a favorite Sawyer nickname: Kenny Rogers. Now why didn’t I see THAT before?! Hilarious.
Loved. It.
May 29th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
I meant anthuriums, not anthurium. Plural. Someone stole my s!
May 29th, 2008 at 10:52 pm
Wow! I can’t believe they film this thing a few miles down the road from where I live (native in Kapolei). Throughout the entire episode, I felt as though I were watching a piece of cinema and couldn’t believe the amount of talent, time, and effort that goes into creating a new episode for us every week. I can’t wait to see what the producers have in store for us in the final two seasons.
I came to the sobering realization, however, that this show is more than likely going to end with a close-up on Jack’s eyes at the moment of his passing. For 4 seasons now, everyone’s been fearing that the end of the line would be the final rescue of everyone getting off the island, with the cliche of helicopter or boat going off into the sunset. Now we know (thankfully!) this is not to be the case, but sadly, as I was watching the beginning of the lie where Jack and surviors settle on the Indonesian shore, it seems to me the only logical way this show can come to an end is for Jack to finally resolves all of his issues and in traditional Lost fashion the natural conclusion to anyone’s story on this show is death. Of course the writers can go the other way, perhaps find a middle to ground to keep Jack alive, but with Jack proven to be the liar and narcissist that he is, I don’t see Jack’s life on the island bringing him any sense of peace.
I agree with Stacey in NC — Penny’s reunion with Desmond was good, yet not quite what I expected after 2 years. I mean all of were very lucky to get this extra hour crammed into tonight’s finale, and if there’s one compromise the producers had to make tonight I think it was where Penny and Desmond finally reunite (though I felt like jumping on tables the entire I was watching this long overdue reunion).
Congrats to everyone at the end of season 3 who ventured to say that it was Locke who was in the coffin. Unlike last year’s finale I kept myself to being spoiler free and I relished just about every moment of it tonight. Indeed, this is one very special show. Peace.
May 30th, 2008 at 2:06 am
Great episode but so much to digest. Agree that the Charlotte story-line is going to be intriguing. She is too young to be Annie but could she be Ben’s real daughter? Richard Alpert’s? What is her connection to the island. Claire does appear to be dead and why doesn’t she want aaron to go back to the island. That would seemingly contradict the directive to have Claire raise him. And did the boat that Miles and Daniel were floating around in pick up Jin? Did Jin jump from the freightor in time? After all, when we don’t see people actually die in this show, they tend not to! I’m going off to ponder some more.
May 30th, 2008 at 2:10 am
Good episode not great. It looks like we have reached the end of the second act of the entire series as the story now moves onto the final act - the Post-island adventure.
Next year I want more Miles and Charlotte their stories are very intriguing; kudos to the creators for adding characters with such depth.
Unlike some I wasnt shocked who was in the coffin…I mean it could have been three people - Sawyer, Locke, or a cloned Ben. Frankly I would have been more shocked if it was Ben, but hey overall good episode I am content until January 2009.
May 30th, 2008 at 2:21 am
The one question I have, though stupid it may be, is this: Why is it necessary to lie about the survivors still on the island in order to “protect them?” I just don’t really get that. I would understand it more if the O6 were lying to protect themselves.
Anyway, great episode!
Thanks Ryan and Jen for a great forum and great podcast!
May 30th, 2008 at 2:35 am
We should now be able to figure out where the island was located. We know they flew about 6 hours on a route from Sydney to LA. We also know that the island was 3000 miles from that little island off of Indonesia. Where those two markers intersect, that’s where the island was.
May 30th, 2008 at 2:45 am
Daryl, I think they are lying to protect the others because they’ve learned that someone is determined to find the island and has no qualms about killing everyone on it. It’s somewhat of an uneasy truce - the 6 don’t say anything, and Widmore pretends that their story is true and ignores them.
I like the theory that Charlotte is Annie and Ben’s child, and that she left the island (back in the Dharma days when it was possible) because Ben was starting to scare her with his crazy behavior (sneaking out to meet Richard Alpert in the woods, talking about Jacob and a hidden cabin, etc.) This could have instigated Ben’s kidnapping of Alex a few years later - might even have caused Ben to do something out of anger that caused the pregnancy issues (which he later regrets, and therefore, is obsessed with having Juliet reverse what he caused.)
I also like the theory that we’ve already met another person who, like Ben, moved the island in the past and can’t return. Who else but Widmore? Explains his obsession with it but his inability to actually do anything himself - he needs to get people there, and has Abadon (spelling?) as his hired gun to assemble the right people.
Bentham/Locke could have told Sun that Ben caused the explosion by killing Keamy, which explains her sudden desire to befriend Widmore to go after Ben. Wouldn’t it be great for the 6 to return to the island with Ben’s help, only have Sun as a mole working for Widmore?
Okay, tired now.
May 30th, 2008 at 3:26 am
Did Sayid kill Bentham/Locke?
When Sayid shows up at Santa Rosa to get Hurley he says “They said it was suicide,” referring to Locke’s death. And Hurley gives him a look and says “They said it was suicide?” Why would Sayid kill Locke? Was that on Ben’s orders?
May 30th, 2008 at 3:28 am
Jermey Bentham is another philosopher of law…so was locke supposed to pick the book of laws then? (that whole display thing freaks me out about Bentham)
Anyway I am more confused than ever of course…
When Penny’s boat came in it sort of reminded me of when the others took walt…the boat coming in slowly…the light…etc…
The whole moving of the island thing was cool. And of course the light again.
But if the others were welcoming john “home” how did john get back on the mainland? And yeah…..was that why jack had to bring christian on t he plane ( i know he died in sydney but…wierd) and why he had one of the gadgets that ben used that was lying next to jack in the very first scene? Was jack the one who had to gather this group of people to go on the plane in the first place? And now he has to regroup them again but this time with locks coffin on the plane????
Anyway….so confused. have a good one!!!! Thanks for the show ryan and jen…enjoy the break!
May 30th, 2008 at 3:50 am
Nadia, in answer to your questin as to how Locke returned to the mainland, remember that we’ve seen both Richard Alpert and Mr. Friendly (my mind is blanking on his name) go back and forth at will. Now that Alpert and Locke are working together, it’s reasonable to assume that Locke learns all the secrets.
May 30th, 2008 at 4:12 am
I think the final hour may have been the most entertaining hour of LOST to date. Here are my thoughts, the morning after:
- Who killed Locke and why is he off the island? It’s three years later so we have to assume Locke by this time pretty much knows everything Ben has known all along, about the island, how to get off, his ability, etc. But why get off the island? It’s the one thing he’s never wanted to do. We know “bad things” have happened in those three years (can’t wait to find out what Sawyer has gone through in three years after all that’s happened in three months), and we know “Bentham” has visited some of the O6 (one way or another) in an apparent effort to bring them back.
My guess is Locke assumes the separate identity to help him elude Widmore and Ben, but Ben finds him and kills him. Why? It’s his only way back to the island. I think he knows once Locke gets back to the island he’ll come back to life somehow. And the only way to get Jack “over this hump”, to make him see how wrong he was about Locke and the island, was for him to see Locke dead…in a way manipulating Jack into returning. I think Ben is manipulating all of the 6 to get them to return. I think he had Nadia killed to get Sayid to work for him, etc.
-Sun’s common interests with Widmore. The only interest Widmore has is to find the island. He wanted Ben alive so he sent Keamy in to get him; Ben could then lead him to it. But that didn’t happen. The only reason Widmore would want Ben now would be if (at the time Sun and he met) Ben had already found and killed Penny. Then they’d both want revenge on Ben (assuming Sun thinks Ben is the other man responsible for Jin’s death). BUT there’s no way Sun goes willingly back to the island with Ben if this is the case.
-I also think Widmore knows the real story of the O6 AND Desmond. He knows Penny is in hiding, hence his comment to Ben (in Shape of things to come) that he’ll never find her. And in return Ben’s reply that Widmore will never find the island (because he moved it).
-I think Claire is dead….and the apparitions are sent by Jacob at his will to warn, instruct, and “release”. I also think somehow Ben has had some kind of control over them as well. If you want to go the spiritual route, Jacob is “god” or the holy spirit figure, Ben is the satan figure, Locke maybe the “Elijah” or John the Baptist, and ultimately Jack becomes the Christ-like figure.
I’m rambling now, my brain is fried. I know everything and I know absolutely nothing. That’s what I love this show!
May 30th, 2008 at 4:33 am
In the official podcast Carlton said the code for the final scene was “Frozen Donkey Wheel.” I can’t believe there really was a frozen donkey wheel!
May 30th, 2008 at 4:41 am
My wife got the pleasure of watching me running around the living room last night, hands in the air, happily saying “Penny’s boat!” over and over. That made me very happy… and now we know that Penny and Desmond get at least a little time together again. Oh and the actor that plays Frank should always have a beard in whatever roles he plays… just as an aside.
For the record let me just say that I doubt Jin is dead… totally agree with the on screen death thing not sticking. I imagine Faraday with pick him up and we don’t know for certain that the “Alcatraz” island disappeared too. All we know is that the helicopter was too far away to see it. Also I think Ben is behind the deaths of Nadia and possibly Locke… but we’ll have to wait and see.
If Locke did come and talk to everyone, then he probably told Sun that the freighter blowing up was Ben’s fault. She’s probably certain that Jin is dead, and wants revenge on Ben. I don’t think she took over her father’s corporation initially for that purpose. She took it over to resolve her own daddy issues, but the company will certainly come in handy in the future… oh and she probably got the money to buy it through Hurley.
That is all for now.
May 30th, 2008 at 5:20 am
Wonderful End of Season
Now I get the picture!
for me, my own personal conclusion about the Island:
The Island can be Paradise, the cradle of civilization, the lost city of Atlantis, Bermuda’s Triangle? I don’t know, only the writers and producers know!
It all makes sense why the Island is so special and desirable and must be kept very top secret… Will at the end of the series, the Island and Island mysteries still be a secret for the World ?
thank you for the podcast, looking forward for this one !!!
May 30th, 2008 at 5:44 am
I’m guessing that Faraday’s boat was in the circumference of the space/time warp so he will probably be back on the island. Although, he could have been stranded on the boat in the ocean and will be picked up and become one of Ben’s “ideas” for getting the 06 back to the island.
I wonder where Desmond and Penny are during the time that Ben and Widmore have their hotel confrontation. If Ben carries through on his vendetta then Desmond will probably have to be her protector for the rest of the show.
May 30th, 2008 at 5:50 am
I don’t think Sun went to Widmore because she thinks Jin is still alive and she wants to find him…. but because she wants revenge on Ben. Locke/Jeremy Betham probably came to her like he came to the rest and told her that Ben was responsible for blowing up the freighter.
May 30th, 2008 at 6:30 am
I wonder . . . when Charlie told Hurley to tell Jack that he’s “not supposed to raise him” . . . maybe he wasn’t talking about Aaron. Maybe he was talking about Locke, as in “raise him from the dead.” Locke could also be who Claire was referring to when she told Kate, “Don’t you dare bring him back.” Hmmm. (Though I’m actually half convinced that that wasn’t really an apparition but Kate’s subconscious.)
And Ryan, wow, your post on this episode was brilliant. I’m amazed you can be so articulate that soon after watching the show. Hats off!
May 30th, 2008 at 6:35 am
One detail I thought was very interesting was the introduction of an update sound design. Upon return from the commercial after the helicopter went down, a new instrument is suddenly introduced: bells.
The bells sounded like those bells you hear in Eastern Asian music, something you might hear in a Buddhist temple.
I wonder if this was done to portend Season 5’s potential island flashback? A mystical journey back to the island’s genesis? How appropriate.
Not only are this show’s visual amazing, but the sound is simply awesome. Kudos Lost, kudos.
May 30th, 2008 at 6:36 am
I liked it but for some reason it wasn’t my favorite. So we all know the island has healing powers…hence Locke being able to walk. How does this translate to him leaving the island like Ben did? Once he’s off the island is he back to being paralyzed? Why is that coffin so darn short?
May 30th, 2008 at 6:47 am
The only problem I had with this episode is that it marked the point where the show is 2/3 of the way done. As great as having an endpoint is for the plot, I’m not sure how I’m going to handle the end of such an amazing show.
In terms of who is on whose side, I’m a bit confused. The caller in Kate’s dream, Ben, and Locke all seem to want the six to return to the island. However, Claire seems to think that taking “him” back would be a mistake. Can we take Kate’s dream at face value, or is it simply her own conflicted subconscious?
I can’t wait to see the solution to Charlotte’s puzzle. Her background seemed straightforward enough when Ben tells of her British history and being the youngest of three girls. I love Stacy NC’s theory that she might not age.
One of the most telling moments for me was after Sawyer leapt from the helicopter. Lapidus comments that the fuel situation was dire, unless someone else wanted to jump. We get a quick view of Hurley, but more interestingly, Kate gives Jack a long look. It’s as if her view of hero and responsibility have been shaken by Sawyer’s act. It pays off for the characters, too. Jack is doomed to an obsessive compulsive addict’s life, while Sawyer gets the blond on the beach with the rum. Yo ho ho…
What a long wait we have. I’d love it if this site hosted a lost-related book club during the hiatus. Can we start with the Dark Tower?
May 30th, 2008 at 7:36 am
It takes the excitement of a season finale to bring me out of lurking.
Why can nobody say Locke’s name in the future? I’m reminded of the Harry Potter books where Voldemort can sense when somebody says his name. Maybe saying Locke summons a squadron of Oceanic and Dharma goons.
In the first season, I thought we would need to wait until the end to get resolutions to Sayid’s search for Nadia, Sawyer’s search for the real Sawyer, and island escape — then Desmond’s reunion with Penny seemed years away. I love getting these anticipated points covered so the writers can take us somewhere new and unexpected.
May 30th, 2008 at 7:53 am
PS: The shot of the empty chair where Hurley can see Eko but Sayid can’t … very similar shot to an empty chair where Ben can see Jacob but Locke can’t.
Hurley’s ghost-seeing ability has made me wonder if Dave was a ghost haunting Libby (explaining why he only showed up when Libby was nearby).
Two season finales without a Hurley bird! But at least the tradition of using ancient dynamite in the finale has been replaced by massive amounts of C4.
Aloha!
May 30th, 2008 at 7:57 am
Back after a bit of a blog hiatus and all I can say is… Wow.
I have a few questions — appreciate any answers.
- Why didn’t Locke just put the friggin’ heart rate monitor on himself as Keamy was dying and save the people on the boat?
- Maybe it’s old news but did anyone notice the additional footage during the 8-9 hour? Jack names the nine people who “survived the crash.” The podcasts had mentioned this but the footage was inserted back in after being cut at first.
Jiller, I do like the theory about Widmore having been Ben’s predecessor, which would explain his desire to get back to the island.
My theory is that once Ben gets off the island, Locke gets more or less “exposed” as not as wise as they thought he was. (Kind of like in the episode where Alpert goes to see him as a kid and is disappointed after he selects the knife after a proising start to the Dalai Lama game.) They might learn that Sawyer actually killed Anthony Cooper, for instance. I wonder whether Charlotte isn’t his successor. After all, things go “horribly wrong” and she’s more adversarial toward the current Others/Losties than anyone except maybe Miles. Or maybe Miles is the successor, given his “special” talents?
The gash in Ben’s arm/freezing/Halliwax parka suggests that he leaves the island after moving it and winds up in Tunisia. However, in “The Shape of Things To Come” it is 10/24/05 despite his turning the donkey wheel 12/04. Hmmmm…
I hope Jin is still alive. So sad. I’d love to see more of Daniel too. There is an implication when Walt sees Hurley that Michael is still alive as well… not sure why else he would feel that “protecting them” is so important.
May 30th, 2008 at 8:02 am
One last question regarding getting back to the island.
Jack wants to go. Kate does not.
Hurley is convinced by Sayid, who is working in concert with Ben.
Aaron probably doesn’t have much say. Neither does Locke.
Sun is now trying to coerce Widmore to help. Whether she’s working as a double agent, I don’t know. But Widmore hates Ben and vice versa, so for Sun to collaborate with Sayid they are either being very deceptive, or she’s playing Widmore.
Sun implies to Widmore that they know that other people got off the island. We’re talking Ben I assume, and not Des.
Sun also holds either Jack or Ben (we think) partly responsible for Jin’s “death” (or at least being left behind).
I’m very ucnclear as to how we’re going to get these six (seven plus Locke) unified to return to the island.
I LOVE the survivor guilt/monkey’s paw complications though, and I hope to see much more of Sawyer/Juliet/Jin/Daniel et al.
May 30th, 2008 at 8:34 am
OMG! Great episode! I don’t know how anyone can say it was ‘good but not great’. The writers answered the majority of the questions we have been asking all season. And it wouldn’t be Lost if they didn’t give us enough information to make us ask new questions for next season.
I cried during 3 scenes:
- Sawyer jumping from the helicopter. He has done a complete 180! Is this the same guy who was hoarding all the medical supplies and guns just a few seasons ago? LOVE HIM!
- Jin’s ‘death’. I really hope he is not dead! Can’t wait to see how this unfolds. I definitely think Sun is going to use Widmore to look for Jin.
- Desmond and Penny’s reunion. I did not expect that yet! I’m glad we were thrown that morsel tonight.
I think Locke ended up in the casket because things had gone so terribly wrong on the island and he had to move it again, therefore never being able to return. Didn’t they say that they thought ‘Jeremy Bentham’ had killed himself? (In the Jack and Kate conversation in the beginning of the show?) If that is the case, I think Locke would have killed himself for 2 reasons.
1) Hoping to get back to the island (spiritually). OR,
2) His grief over never being able to return.
Loved Sawyer’s nickname for Lapidus…Kenny Rogers. LOL!
May 30th, 2008 at 8:49 am
Oh my goodness! I loved it! My daughter woke up four times while the hubby and I watched it in tape delay, so I had to stop it a lot. I need to watch it again without any interuptions. iTunes here I come.
Loved Desmond and Penny together. Now he will protect her for the next two seasons.
That was romantic perfect, splendid. I didn’t expect that until two more years!
I think Jin could still be alive. Dove off the side of the frieghter, to be picked up by Danial Faraday and the raft full of red shirts (or log carrying guys and gals), and searching for the now moved Island.
And the last person who moved the island, the one from whom Ben learned that little secret, was Witmore. I think he was the “one” before Ben, and something happened necessitating the saving of the Island. But my big question is, once you’ve paid the ultimate price of moving the Island and being “banished” can you come back home again? Because as much as I hated Ben in the beginning, and still think he’s a selfish bastard, I want him to be reunited with the Island in the end.
Thanks for bringing this podcast back. You were my first podcast ever, and it feels like visiting friends each week I download a new show.
May 30th, 2008 at 9:14 am
One more quick thing. Did anyone notice that… if I’m remembering correctly… that right after Kate went in to see Aaron (after the bad dream) and she was saying sorry to him, then the camera zoomed in on Aaron, and the flashback sound played… and we were back on the raft about to get picked up by Penny. So that segment was technically an Aaron flashback.
I just thought that was interesting.
May 30th, 2008 at 9:21 am
Wow, what an episode! Just watched for the 2nd time and it was even better (and I cried more, go figure…). My random thoughts:
-Dave @ “Why didn’t Locke just put the friggin’ heart rate monitor on himself as Keamy was dying and save the people on the boat?” EXACTLY what I was yelling at the tv last night, lol! I don’t get it either. Maybe this is the foreshadowing of Locke being not too bright which leads to the horrible island stuff to come
-I think the other person Sun blames for Jin’s “death” is Jack…he tells Ben this in the last scene.
-Sawyer’s sacrifice was awesome. Has anyone found a clue as to what he whispered to Kate?
-Maybe the horrible stuff that happens next on the island is caused by the time-space-whatever-shifting (ie. Desmond’s crazy spell) and not Locke & the Others, Miles, etc. Just a thought. I really hope we don’t see anymore of our losties die.
-Didn’t expect the Desmond/Penny reunion at all! Soooo good. They probably won’t be trouble-free for long, but we got a bit of a happy ending there!
-Sun is becoming such an interesting character. I wonder if Jeremy/Locke actually told her that Jin was alive - presumably he would know one way or the other - and this has strengthened her resolve to get revenge, find the island, bring her father down, ???
-Don’t want to wait until Jan
May 30th, 2008 at 9:38 am
Wow! So Claire, who might be dead and who surely has the pulse of the Island now warns Kate not to bring Aaron back, while Ben, who we’ve come to know as someone who really does know a lot of the Island’s secrets, says they all have to go back . . . interesting.
I have to admit, when I initially heard the name “Jeremy Bentham” in the episode I said - well the person in the coffin must be John Locke! Makes sense, right? But then got away from that and right before Ben showed up I was convinced it was Ben - should have stuck with my initial gut feeling - my major in political philosophy can’t steer me wrong!!
OK - this is just a completely nitpicky thing, but it kept bringing me out of the episode - as the mother of a new baby, I have to wonder HOW IS AARON EVEN ALIVE?? No Claire - no milk. Even assuming they have “Dharma formula” on the Island - they sure don’t have it on that boat they were on for a week! I know this is one of those things that doesn’t matter in the show - and I’m sure its just my “new mom” status - but it kept bugging me!!!
May 30th, 2008 at 10:36 am
No way Jin is dead. They would not kill a major character like that. Especially Jin, he would need to have something as dramatic and heroic as Charlie’s death. Plus, Faraday should arrive just in time to pick him up.
May 30th, 2008 at 10:45 am
Lindsay-I think it’s a pretty safe bet that Sawyer was telling Kate something like “I have a daughter. Her name is Clementine. She lives in New Mexico (?). Please see that she’s taken care of.” Or something to that effect. This is the favor she was doing for Sawyer in Something Nice From Home that got Jack’s tail in a knot.
May 30th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Absolutely delightful finale! Couple questions/thoughts
Why did hurley lie to walt about his dad. Desmond knew that micaek went up with the ship and so hurley had to know.
How could Locke be killed unless the island was done with him? Guns don’t work if the island needs you alive!
Long wait for next season
May 30th, 2008 at 11:27 am
Great finale. How are you possibly going to do a “Lost in 8 Minutes” on this one?!!!
May 30th, 2008 at 11:44 am
Ryan and Jen,
Excellent summary as always. What a FANTASTIC finale! I couldn’t agree more.
But I have to apologize in advance to you all everybody because I don’t care if the site thinks I’m spam, I plan to post my little fingers off. I’m making up for missing the posting window for the last two episodes.
N
May 30th, 2008 at 11:45 am
I agree that this was a great one…thank goodness since we have to wait forever for another.
littleimp / people wondering about Aaron - - OK - I’m a single guy and I have not a clue as to how long a baby would survive w/out mother’s milk….however…if Aaron is “special” in the “Baby Locke” kinda way perhaps he was suffering as Locke did as a child, but is unable to die.
Perhaps Aaron is the boy-wonder Richard Alpert and gang have been seeking and didn’t even know they were so close to finding.
Luke - also liked what you said about Walt and the reason he is “special” in perhaps another way than the boy/girl Richard & Co. look for.
May 30th, 2008 at 11:51 am
Oh yeah -
paintergirl 1 - liked the book club idea. Perhaps could cover more books if people wanted to read different ones and post back thoughts / coincidences.
and….have we seen the end of Patchy? Is he gonna save Jin ya think? j.k….but I”m up for whatever! This is the best show eva!
May 30th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Lot’s of great reveals in the finale…except where’s Vincent? Thought for sure he was the one in the coffin! (arf, arf).
May 30th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
There were a lot of great little scenes tonight but I think one of my favorites was Ben handing over leadership of the others to Locke… In this season Ben has in a weird way been a sort of mentor and almost a father figure to Locke, even though I guess he is younger. He’s never really given Locke his approval before, so it was sort of poignant to see him express confidence in Locke. I think the line was something like, “you’ll find your way, John. You always do.” You don’t see Ben hand out a lot of compliments, so it was pretty significant!
May 30th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Can you do a double synopsis - 16 minutes and 8 seconds. Right at the beginning when Kate said “…after all those horrible things that happened,” I knew they were not going to make it easy on the viewer.
Thank you for not hurting Sawyer, for once!
Sayid was amazing during the fight with Keamey.
I think the most nervous I got was when I saw Jin running for the helicopter, the ship exploding, and poor Sun screaming and no one being able to do anything to change what happened, and then when the helicopter was going down, I really thought I was about to “lose my lunch.” Watching Jack, so realistically trying to find a deep breath, to resuscitate Desmond — man it would have really sucked if Penny’s boat shows up and Desmond is dead. I wanted Penny and Hurley to make that connection that Charlie helped in some way reunite her and Desmond. This part of the show is to be watched again. It’s hard on my emotional capacity to digest it all at once!
And, specific words are used, such as when Kate is running to Aaron’s room after the nightmare and apologizing to Aaron. I think because she really does feel she has to go back to the island and even considered not deserting Aaron, but taking him with her. But Claire didn’t say “Don’t go back to the island.” She says, “Don’t you dare take him back there!” Claire accepts that Kate wants to go back and specifies Aaron doesn’t go — he is where he is supposed to be, right? and notice that it is a DIFFERENT Claire than the Claire that was in the cabin.
Season 5 will not come soon enough!
May 30th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
I couldn’t agree more with the folks above regarding Sawyer’s departure from the helicopter. Love him or hate him, he’s become a noble and selfless person. My wife and I were almost in tears thinking about Frank’s comment that the could afford to lose a few hundred pounds and then seeing Hurley. The old Sawyer would have made a smartass comment. The new Sawyer jumps. Jack, in the meantime, refuses to do it because they “need” him — a fairly selfish conceit reierated by Locke’s comments to him at the Orchid.
I have a bad feeling about the next two seasons for John Locke. I think he’s going to be exposed as a flawed leader… as much of a psycho as Ben could be, he was determined and he had a plan and he didn’t let things or people get to him. Locke just doesn’t have that self-confidence and on the rare occasions when he does, people wind up dying (Boone) or screwed (e.g. blowing up the submarine). This is the guy who lost all his faith in the computer and the button and the hatch just before it blew… if it wasn’t for Des they’d all be toast.
May 30th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
1. I think Penny funded Sun’s purchase of the stock. I think this is one of the things discussed in the off-camera discussion that Jack asked for after Penny’s boat came to the rescue. (It’s unlikely that the Oceanic settlements plus Hurley’s lottery winnings would have been enough.)
2. Desmond’s vision for Charlie called for Aaron AND Claire to get off the island. Has this not happened yet?
3. Put together two ideas mentioned at various places: Charlotte is Annie and Ben’s daughter; Penny is Annie and Charles Widmore’s daughter. (Maybe Charlotte’s other sister was Danielle? –Perhaps Annie and Hanso’s daughter.)
4. Why was Hurley unwilling to use Jeremy Bentham’s “true” name, John Locke? Hurley had not shown anger at Locke during the Ben-John-Hugo trek to the Orchid. What did John do thereafter to concern Hurley? Is it related to chess (and Eko)? The numbers? And who ordered watch the clinic in which Hurley is living and where did Abadon want to take him?
5. What can the Oceanic Six plus Locke (dead) bring of value to the island? Why are all 7 necessary? If Aaron is the “special” one, isn’t he enough? Jack, Kate, and Sayid are not “special” — Jack wasn’t even on Jacob’s list….
I’m sure I’m missing what’s really important — Geronimo Jackson.
May 30th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Just a side note…
Info on Abaddon:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbadon
May 30th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
I don’t know if anyone else mentioned this, or if it holds up to scrutiny, but didn’t Sawyer’s conversation with Juliette near-perfectly reflect a conversation on the beach between a naked Sawyer and Kate inseason 1? Maybe Sawyer’s finally moving on and Jate will return to the island to find a Sawyliette?
May 30th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Ryan,
Where would we be without your great commentary! The tremendous effort you put into researching and linking makes it possible for a simpleton like me to follow the plot even though I miss way too many episodes.
May 30th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
Anyone think that Ben’s line “Sometimes good command decisions get compromised by bad emotional responses” was a playful reference to the writer’s strike? Anyway…
Great, great episode. This had to be the best season finale the series has had thus far; each individual element that makes LOST as special as it is was represented. The action/adventure, the romance, the drama, the more sci-fi elements, etc., etc. Then again, everything I just mentioned was represented equally throughout the season. This had to be the purest LOST season yet in that sense, and definitely the best since season one. I remember watching “Walkabout” from season one and thinking “this is the show I have to watch!” just because of all the special moments in that episode alone. This season gave me about a dozen more of those same moments—Alex’s death, Desmond and Penny’s reunion, Locke in the coffin, the O6’s return, the helicopter crash, Ben and Widmore’s hotel confrontation, Sun at Jin’s grave, etc.
I’m rambling on, and I most likely don’t have anything much to contribute that hasn’t already been covered by the rest of you. However, I do believe in the theory that Jin hopped off of the freighter just in the nick of time. This might not be canon whatsoever, but when JJ Abrams was making the rounds for “Cloverfield”, Daniel Dae Kim had his DUI incident. One of the stops he made was the Howard Stern show, and when Stern asked if Kim’s character would be killed off this season due to the DUI, Abrams answered with a quick, decisive “No, absolutely not.” Take that for what you will.
Anyway, this has gotten long but I want to think you guys for the amazing podcast. I’ve been listening since the beginning of the season and I guess I’ve been spoiled a little too much because I can’t even listen to any other LOST podcast anymore—this one fills my need on its own!
Can’t wait for the next one. You rock, guys.
Kevin
May 30th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
It’s 4:42am here in England (okay, it’s 4:39, but it’ll be 4:42 by the time i’m finished with my post!). I finished watching the episode about 20 minutes ago and had to come here and see what you all thought.
I have to say, Lost isn’t the show it used to be for me - I really do think season one was the best season of television ever made - but in spite of its flaws, it can still be really great!
Yunjin Kim broke my heart tonight. The scene on the helicopter immediately after the boat blows up was just… yeah. She’s an incredible actress. I found tears in my eyes and a lump in my throat after that. Possibly because one of my favourite characters on the show had just been killed off. No, not Jin - I agree with all you who think he’s still alive. It’s funny that this is the second season he’s ending by jumping off an exploding sea vessel to an unknown fate - but Michael! The “Waaalt” business was annoying, yes, but for me, he was such a real character. And his story was incredibly interesting to me, and so so sad. “You can go now.” I’m quite disappointed that his story is over now, but I’m glad that it got a better ending than another of my favourite characters’, Rousseau.
I’m starting to think - like some other posters here - that the island hasn’t moved to another location on earth, but forward in time. The part of the Orchid orientation video when Halli…wax (geddit?) mentions that the bunny seems to momentarily disappear seemed very intentionally placed there. And the fact that the time travel chamber thing seemed to get its power from the frozen donkey wheel backs that up.
The time travel thing does concern me. My feelings are similar to those that Ryan expressed in the last podcast. I really hope that the end of the show doesn’t revolve around that concept. I recently played Via Domus, and there are things in that game (one specific thing that those who’ve played it will recognise) that gave me a sinking feeling in regards to that.
Does anyone else think that how Sawyer and Juliet ended the season was an homage to the first Pirates of the Caribbean movie?
Like last season, I guessed the final reveal long before it was presented. I’m really glad that it the episode didn’t hang on that this year.
One thing I didn’t like was the future corporate-Sun scene. It reminded me of the weaker parts of Alias, with very important people talking in very important tones about very important things. I hope there’s not much more of that to come.
I did like the return of the season two Others, with their whispers, shabby clothes and silent attacks/abductions. It seems like the “new recruits” as I’m thinking of them (i.e. Tom, Pickett, Ethan, Goodwin, etc) were dressing in costume to look more like the natives.
Was Cindy in that group of Others? I didn’t see her.
There are a few things niggling at me. Now that it seems like Claire is dead, what are we to make of Desmond’s vision of her getting onto the helicopter and leaving the island? Where did the entire room full of C4 come from, who put it there, and how did no one notice it before Desmond did?
My thoughts are everywhere, as you can see, and I’m sure I’m forgetting a million things that I wanted to write here.
All in all though, a really great finale. Probably my second favourite season-closer, behind Exodus.
Oh! One final thing that I loved about the episode, and it’s a really little thing that I only noticed because of the instinctual tug of sadness I felt when it happened: When the Helicopter was running out of fuel and they had to throw out everything that wasn’t tied down, Jack threw out his backpack! It’s such a small thing, and I was surprised it saddened me, but Jack has been lugging that same backpack around since early season one. It carried dynamite from the Black Rock (even though it was meant to be in Kate’s!), it carried countless bottles of water between the beach and the caves, it carried the medical supplies that he stitched the cut above Charlie’s eye with after Locke punched him. It really reminded me of the scene in The Lord of the Rings when Sam throws away his backpack while they’re walking through Mordor. The journey that started in Pilot, ‘Part 1′ is over now. He doesn’t need that ratty old thing anymore. He can just go buy a new one.
May 30th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
Dead or Alive?
Michael is dead. He was alive while the island needed him and the island “sent” Christian to say “thanks and you can die now”.
Jin is alive. At least I hope so. They had him on deck so that it can be plausible to have him survive. And I don’t think TPTB are in the business of killing major characters willy nilly. Many of the dead have asked to be taken out of the show and I think we have enough casualties for the season.
Claire is dead. I think the fact that she appeared to Kate, (even thought it was a dream) point in the dead direction. VERY interesting that the message was to NOT take Aaron to the island. If Claire had been sent to kate by the island, the message would have been the opposite so I think it was Claire herself in spirit.
May 30th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Charlotte, Faraday and Miles…
WTF?
I’m thinking the zodiac must have been within “Island’s waters” and moved along with it, jut like Alcatraz. It seems kind of senseless to kill Dan… Then again the boat was full of red-shirts.
How did Miles know about Charlotte? Did he get a reading from her? From listening to the dead?
I bet anything that everybody and the mother are going to say that she is Annie. So then why would Ben not recognize her????? And why would she be “searching” for the place she was born ? Annie was old enough in Ben’s flashbacks so that adult Annie would remember.
And why did Miles want to stay? Is he just loving them dead voices that much or is there another reason?
One thing I’m certain of.. The secondary protocol was NOT Keamy’s plan to kill everyone as some people assumed. It is probably how to move the island or even if it’s not that specific, it at least refers to some plan of last resort. Keamy looked it up so he would know where to find Ben, because Widmore would have assumed that Ben would have to execute the plan of last resort. So Dan’s warning to Charlotte was due to the fact that if the plan was executed they would not be able to leave the island. And that was confirmed when he told her tonight that staying could mean forever. So Dan was not in on some nasty plan of Keamy’s when he recognized the Orchid station name in part one.
May 30th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
Sun and Jin. Yikes!
Sun’s pain was gut wrenching, YK was ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT!
I’m definitely leaning towards Jin being alive though. So I’m still holding out for a happy ending there.
And I didn’t think that she was so mad at Jack this time around. I think that she is just in too much pain. Her loss is too recent. So even the week on Penny’s boat wasn’t enough to pull her out of the shock. I do think that it was deliberate on the part of TPTB to not have her attend Christian’s funeral. That leaves the does she/doesn’t she blame Jack an open question. But it in the end it might just be that she was too pregnant to travel.
The Widmore scene has me absolutely mystified. Up until then I was sure he was the “other person”. But if it was Ben instead, why pair up with Widmore? She has to be aware of his hand in the whole busisness. So can she hate Ben enough to overlook that???
When the scene started I thought it was Kate pulling a “Sayid”. Sun was a total surprise. Could she be setting Widmore up and is she working for Ben? I kind of liked the theory that was going around that the other members of the 6 had helped her with the company buyout. But her being willing to partner with Widmore rather than against him sets her apart from the others who are either pro-Ben or at least neutral…. So that kills that theory.
May 30th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Extraordinary finale, the best one of the series!
This cliffhanger is going to bug all of us for the next 7 months. A few things people, this is “LOST” we are discussing, everyone keeps assuming that Claire is talking about Aaron when she said don’t you dare bring him back to the Island, we don’t know if she is talking about Aaron. Because, we know everyone that left MUST go back!
Another thing is when Sun, told Witmore we were not the only ones who left the island, I believe she was eluding to Ben, evident to the fact that she says to him, “we have common interests” Don’t think she is working with him as much as using him for her own agenda.
I am thinking Ben knows of some loophole in Island lore and his true agenda is to try to get back to the Island and helping the “6″ attempt to do so is how this is going to happen. His specific words to jack were, “We are going to have to bring him back.” We… not… you!
Think Michael is dead, think Jin is dead, if I remember correctly the boat exploded right where he was standing if he survived that, they better have an excellent way of explaining it.
More to come….
May 30th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Bobmotion (and a few others): It wasn’t that Hurley was reluctant to say John Locke’s name, but Sayid cut him off before he could say it because he said they were being watched and he didn’t want “them” to know who Jeremy Bentham was.
Topic for Discussion: Given Sawyer’s seeming change of character from selfish cad to selfless hero, when was the turning point for his character? What event precipitated this change for him? Was it the last time Kate walked out on him at New Otherton? Was it when he split with the beach group and came out from under Jack’s shadow?
May 30th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Am liking the idea that Charlotte is Annie’s daughter, but who is the father? Ben? Widmore? Alpert? Maybe even Locke? Patchy?
May 30th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Absolutely LOVED the coffin scene.
I was prepared to see Michael since his return on the boat was such a poorly kept secret I thought maybe this was as well. But the Jeremy Bentham on the first scene threw that out the window. As well as the freighter explosion.
The absolutely played us with Jeremy “Ben”thanm. And Sayid going to Hurley partly because he was dead. Then the “whoever moves the island can never return” deal. They kept pointing to Ben all night. But the moment Jack said something like “he said it’s my fault” I KNEW it was Locke. I had never, ever considered him. How did he fall from Jacob’s grace so quickly? And I don’t think it’s a twin. That would be too cheesy. (Although when Ben first popped in on Jack, I did think it might be a Ben clone) I don’t know. The brain is short circuiting on that one.
All I can say is that after all the speculation, I was so sure that this scene would NOT be the frozen donkey wheel. But it worked so well. It was so right!
How is Ben going to help convince Kate? If Jack end up party to one of Ben’s manipulative cons, I don’t know how Kate could ever forgive him. She has to be turned around in some other way or at the very least, if it is a con, it has to be very obvious that Jack had no part in it. That maybe he was too far gone to keep Ben from doing whatever. I don’t know. All I know is that if Jack manipulates her, there will be trouble in Jateland.
May 30th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
Is Jack THE chosen one?
I don’t know if the island knew this all along or if this has been one long job interview process for both Jack and John. But so many things take on a new significance now.
Why is Jacob taking Christian’s form? I thought that it meant that it was Christian that had a tie to the Island, not Jack. That being Locke’s contemporary, he might have also been monitored by Alpert as a child. And if there was any connection to his family for the future that it was all about Aaron. But is he taking Jacob’s form because of Jack? Does the island want to be father to Jack? Then why appear as Cristian to Locke? It has no meaning for him.
If the island is trying out both Jack and Locke, why did it bring in one father to be killed and then use the other as it’s envoy?
It looks like the Island does not know for certain who the chosen one will be but it tries out any promising candidate and the discards them when not needed. For example, it though Walt had potential but then decided he was too much.
It probably tried Widmore. Was he the last one to move the Island? Is that why he can’t go back? Is this banishment final or can it be overcome? It seems that both Ben and Widmore think it can. Maybe seeing their successor fail gives them hope.
Does this mean that Jack was also visited by Alpert as a child? What is the island looking for in a leader? It does not seem to pick particularly virtuous people. What makes someone special? Did it know beforehand that it wanted Jack or did it stumble across him? Maybe it realized that it had been looking for the wrong type of leader when it saw how Jack behaved? Maybe it is an indication that the island is trying a different kind of leader. A man with family ties.
Thinking about family, There is the theme that the Island tends to seek out orphans or children with absent parents, especially fathers. Ben, Locke, Walt, Aaron. So much so that it puts emphasis on them being able to turn against their father, even kill them. So is this a new approach? Jack does have father issues and he did stand up against his father’s malpractice. But as dysfunctional as Jack’s family might have been, he is far from being an orphan, and he loves his parents.
Could it be that ultimately the Island wants to take care of it’s people and both Ben and Locke got too caught up in their own egos and started caring for the Island and what it did for them more than caring for the people? Is there something to the idea that maybe the one who doesn’t want the post so badly is destined to make the better leader? Because he will not put himself first. This would fit in with the notion that Jacob is the collective spirit of its inhabitants.
Interesting that his name Shephard
Interesting that his father is *Christian* Shephard.
Interesting that Jack and John are the same name.
I don’t know what all these things mean. But it’s food for thought.
May 30th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Sayid and Hurley.
Is Sayid being honest with Hurley? Where is this “safe” place?
It think we can pretty much guess that this is just an excuse to get him back to the island. That Sayid is working on Ben’s instructions.
Will he be convinced or conned into returning?
How will everyone else be convinced? Kate, Sun
What about Walt? Desmond? Do they also have to return?
Heck, what about Lapidus? Is he the only one of the 4 good freighter folks that won’t be back next season?
May 30th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
I also think we cannot OVERthink the plot of the show, REMEMBER until the end of last season the writers had no clear cut idea of how the show would end. So some things that were a part of it in the beginning fit to the storyline while others may not come into play anymore!
May 30th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
How does Locke fit into the small coffin? Was this just an intentional device to fool us or is something up?
May 30th, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Hey all!
Two things from me this week:
(1) It doesn’t make sense the Dan F would have been “zapped” to a new place with the island. He wasn’t part of the Island. The water didn’t go with the Island….so what would Dan and the rest of his no-name raft-mates?
(2) Why did Keamy’s transmitter work when he went to the drak depths of the Orchard Station? How on earth could a little transmitter like that get a signal from the Orchard Station to a boat that’s far off shore? I think the boat would have blew long before Keamy’s heart stopped beating….
Seven months and counting!!
May 30th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
There are some great comments here, this epsiode really got us all thinking.
One interesting note is that if Locke is dead then his time as the “leader” was relitively short (about 3 years). I get the impression from the scenes in season 3 that Ben assumed that role shortly after the purge and led for about 12-15 years. Since moving the island is such a monumental task it also is not likely done very often. Thus also not requiring a new leader to emerge.
The explaination may be that Locke died unexpectedly on an excursion or “business trip” on behalf of that group. The idea that he was killed by Sayid, Ben, Sun, or Widmore is possible.
It will be interesting to see how that played out on the island becasue Alpert’s group will either have no leader or they have replaced Locke with someone that we know. This may be a part of the bad things that went on in the 3 year gap that we will surely be slowly shown next season.
Enjoy the summer everyone!
May 30th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Wow! That was the most enjoyable two hours of TV I have ever had. I just love the emotional rollercoaster that Lost takes us through, I went from shock to laughter to tears (happy tears and sad tears). No other television has ever managed to move me the way that Lost does.
I really enjoyed the rescue scene in the sea, it was very reminiscent of the raft ‘rescue’ scene with The Others in season two and had me wondering whether Mr Friendly was going to appear!
I also wanted to say thankyou to you Ryan and Jen, for keeping me entertained between shows and enhancing my Lost experience every week.
Roll on January!
May 31st, 2008 at 3:33 am
[...] LOST Podcast: The Transmission » Blog Archive » There’s No Place Like Home - Parts 2 and 3 [Spoiler Alert] Don’t read this if you haven’t watched the season finale of Lost yet (tags: lost) [...]
May 31st, 2008 at 3:44 am
I think that Jin, is not dead and here’s why:
a) There was no scene of Jin right before the explosion. This deliberately leaves open the possibility that he had jumped into the water before it went off
b) The missing second island. That they made a point to demonstrate that it had vanished also opens up the possibility that people who were in the water could have also been transported with the island.
c) The Zodiac. The boat is in the water. If the boat (and subsequently people/water) were not transported with the island, then somewhere they have to be floating in the South Pacific and eventually found, whether dead or alive.
I think that there is far too much vague storytelling here to be able to say for sure he is dead, in fact I think it just indicates the exact opposite. The real story will be how would he fit into a future storyline and how will Sun find him. Does Sun try to team up with Widmore to find the island so she can learn of Jin’s true fate.
May 31st, 2008 at 3:47 am
“I also think we cannot OVERthink the plot of the show, REMEMBER until the end of last season the writers had no clear cut idea of how the show would end.”
I think you are mistaken on that point. From some of the earliest interviews, the writers stated they had a clear outline for the entire story arc and that it was only the supporting details they still had to fill in for each season.
They certainly change their minds about thing. I read once where Jack was supposed to die after a few episodes, and that Ben was not supposed to be a major character. Still, I think they have the endgame mapped out and have since the beginning.
May 31st, 2008 at 3:54 am
Hey Ryan & Jen-
It was EPIC. Completely, inexplicably epic- leaving us with a few answers and thousands of other questions (but that’s what I love about lost) So I have a question for you both: Why did it seem that Ben was willing to sacrifice everyone on the freighter so he could take avenge on his daughter’s death? At points he seems selfish, but this is almost extreme- why do you think he cares so much for Alex and greives so heavily over her death- could there be some connection to the island? Ben in emotional grief is almost as odd (and humorously refresing) as his refrence to those ‘Time Traveling Bunnies.’
Great, great podcast and keep up the fantastic work!
Lilly, 15, Hawaii
May 31st, 2008 at 4:59 am
Connie in Alaska: Thanks for setting me straight. Regarding you discussion topic: It seems that Sawyer changed after killing the “real”? Sawyer, or after Hurley taught him to be a leader. I think he found that he liked people and that he actually enjoyed helping them–a new experience for him. It shows that he can learn in ways beyond reading books.
nerico: about convincting Kate to return. I think the key “person” may be Kate, who has already begun to work on Kate’s mind (albeit sort of backwards). There may be something regarding Aaron, one of the special children, that is relevant. Maybe Aaron does something himself that affects Kate, or his special nature becomes pivotal. Perhaps Walt gets involved. I thin-k several of the off-island special kids, perhaps besides Walt and Aaron, Sun’s new daughter? Maybe Penny’s child (coming?).
Indeed, I still think that Penny is the person assisting Sun’s new corporate moves. I don’t think Penny is likely to hide to avoid Ben’s attacks–she seems to be a “take-charge” type of person. Meanwhile, if Daniel Faraday makes it back to the island, as some are suggesting/predicting, he and his Constant, Desmond, may be able to communicate even from different time dimensions, to support the Penny/Sun cabal. Indeed, I think the series is going to move from a Daddy-centric set of drivers to more Mommy-centric ones — with key players including Annie, Penny, Sun, Charlotte, Claire, and Jack’s mom. Maybe even Rousseau.
May 31st, 2008 at 8:04 am
The Santa Rosa scene with Hurley/Sayid gave me the impression that Sayid is NOT responsible for Locke/Bentham’s death.
Sayid came right out and said he killed the man staking out the premesis in the parking lot (so we know he’s forthcoming with grim information!), and it sounded like he and Hurley were both questioning the obituary info that L/B commited suicide.
Have Sayid and Locke had big conflict before? It would take a lot for Sayid to kill someone he knew. More than Ben telling him to anyway, presuming he’s still working on Ben’s orders.
ConnieinAlaska: Thanks for your response, it seems fairly certain Kate’s job has something to do with Clementine, I would just love to know exactly what! We’ll find out soon enough.
May 31st, 2008 at 8:36 am
The doctor washing up on the shore ‘before’ he actually dies blows the show wide open more than anything else that happened this season. Adam and Eve could well be Jack and Kate, returning to the island at the wrong bearing and turning up pre-Dharma, even. I’m sure that’s a hackneyed theory but what isn’t?
May 31st, 2008 at 9:42 am
@Tim R - I’ve had the same thoughts exactly. I remember reading a quote from the writers about fans looking back at Adam and Eve and being impressed that they had the ending planned clear back in season one. I’m not sure it is Jack and Kate, but I think we know Adam and Eve, somehow.
Something else to consider in regards to time issues: Ben’s arrival in Tunisia. When he goes riding off in the desert on a horse with no name to the hotel and checks in as Dean Moriarty, we see Sayid mourning the loss of his wife Nadia. He seemed not all that surprised that the date was October 24, 2005, even though he put on his parka in the Orchid on December 30, 2004.
This puts into question how long Locke really was a leader on the island before he returned to the O6. Time works so strangely, we really can’t say anything definitive. We just have to enjoy the ride :).
May 31st, 2008 at 11:39 am
A couple of things jump to mind after viewing the finale:
1) The Orchid video that Locke watched wasn’t the one I was expecting to see. Where was the one from Comic-Con with the time-traveling bunny that upset Hallowax so much? Any explanations as to why we didn’t see this video, and how (if we ever get to) it’ll fit into the story?
2) On the island, there are the Others (now led by Locke) and the Planeys, who were formerly Locke’s companions (although we don’t really know how many of them are left). Will there continue to be a rift between the two camps, or will Locke find a way to unite them?
3) Now that we know who’s in the coffin, the next big reveal needs to be the background behind that 4-toed statue!
May 31st, 2008 at 11:46 am
Hi Ryan and Jen,
I’ve had an idea for what you could do with The Transmission over the super-hiatus. How about recording an audio commentary each week, starting with the Pilot and working your way through? You could probably only get through a season and a half at that rate, but it’d be a really fun way of going back to the first season and staying Lost until February rolls around.
I’d love to hear you guys reflect on how different the show is given what we all know about the island, its inhabitants, the show’s mythology and what’s to come. Maybe you could even have guest commentators with you for some episodes. It sounds like something Jorge Garcia might be into.
It’s just an idea, but I’d love it if you guys could do something like that. And now I’m off to rewatch the season four finalé!
May 31st, 2008 at 11:53 am
I saw Vincent in the distant background being petted by somebody and it is when Daniel and Juliet are talking about her waiting until everyone was rescued. Look at the people on the beach.
May 31st, 2008 at 12:09 pm
How is Kate supposed to get back to the island when legally she’s not supposed to leave California? (I think I’m remembering that right from Eggtown.)
Maybe Ben has to bring a “sacrifice” to the island in order to return. In his half-truthfulness, he could have easily left out details like, “Whoever moves the island can never return…UNLESS they bring a dead body; bring back the next leader, dead; etc… Or maybe if he brings back Locke’s body, the moment he arrives on the island with it, Ben will die, but his consciousness will inhabit and animate Locke’s body…?
Sun blames Jack for Jin’s death. Jack says so when he’s talking to Ben in the funeral home. “Sun blames me for…” although he does trail off.
I don’t think Jin is dead. I think he was able to jump off. I also don’t think Dan and the zodiac went with the island. The helicopter should have been faster than the zodiac to get back to the island, right? So if the helicopter didn’t get snatched out of the air and taken along, the zodaic shouldn’t have been close enough either. They didn’t really look around for the zodiac after the island disappeared, and then they were too busy crashing to think about anything but themselves. However, as to where they went or why they haven’t shown up within three years…
May 31st, 2008 at 12:11 pm
p.s. maybe vincent is jacob…they’ve said he has been seen but hasn’t had a speaking part, right? so that leaves vincent, smokey, trees/rocks/plants, polar bears…
May 31st, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Anybody else but me find it strange that Jacob is missing? Why has Christian all of a sudden taken the responsibility of protecting the island? And if Jacob is suppose to be the embodiment of the island, why wasn’t he present when the island jumped time and space?
This string of questions are for the most part missed, because we are wrapped up by the intriguing storyline but highly important! Been a great season, guys, and much appreciated for the stimulating conversations and insight into ONE of TV’s most entertaining show. The Transmission, thus is the most entertaining podcast of one of TV’s most entertaining show. Ryan and Jen, have a happy vacation and I hope you keep up the good hard work!
-Mr. Z
June 1st, 2008 at 12:40 am
My theory now is that there is an E.T. thing going on here. i think the Others are extra-terrestrials and the island is their ship (perhaps now disguised as an island) that folds space (and time) to travel long distances. They crashed on Earth and the vessel was damaged to the point that it can no longer travel through space, but can be moved within the confines of Earth. The Others have no understanding of our world, which is why they always seek out a leader, like Ben and now Locke, who can guide them as they travel on and off the island. I think they were building landing strips/runways back in Season 2 (?) when Kate, Jack and Sawyer were captured for the purpose of bring other (smaller?) ships to rescue them and return to their planet or perhaps as an invasion. The big giant gear that Ben was turning to move the island, what with the glowing and the humming, sure seemed like something out of a space ship, or really sci-fi. This would also explain the alien heiroglyphs on the door in Ben’s secret chamber and on the countdown display in the original hatch. We know that the Lost writers have a love of Star Wars and other fantasy creations, so I’m betting this is the deal.
Love your show. Ryan, I’m just now getting used to your voice and I love it!
June 1st, 2008 at 1:33 am
Great podcast, Ryan and Jen, and great comments here on the blog! So many interesting points by so many intelligent people!
nerico is not so sure about doubles of people and calls that idea “cheesy”, but I’d like to discuss this a bit. Maybe the reason Ben can’t come back to the island is because there is another Ben on the island, just like Bunny #15 is not supposed to see Bunny #15 in the Orchid video. Ben can’t go back because he is already there, and if he encounters himself, something terrible will happen. Maybe also “Jeremy Bentham” is a double of John Locke who is still on the island. (What happens if one of the doubles is killed? Did Dharma ever try that experiment with the bunnies?) And is it possible that these doubles have slightly different personalities? The Ben (a.k.a. Dean Moriarty) in the final scene with Jack in the funeral parlor seemed like a much kindler, gentler Ben than the island Ben. But perhaps that comes from just time away from the island, time to heal the loss of Alex, and no longer having the pressure of being the boss. Having a double might also explain how Ben could have been back on the mainland before without being missing from the island — if his double was on the mainland while original Ben was on the island.
June 1st, 2008 at 1:38 am
Whoa — OK — just had a further thought, not quite fully formed. We saw Desmond’s consciousness fly back and forth between the UK and the freighter…I wonder if this somehow related to what I just wrote about doubles.
June 1st, 2008 at 6:06 am
Wow. Great finale. I can’t add much that hasn’t already been said, as all of you seemed to have picked up most of what I was thinking.
We are left with 5 separate groups (maybe 6) who know about the island.
1. Those left on the beach with Sawyer and Julliet, Rose and Bernard, Charlotte and Miles, and a few others.
2. Those with Locke and Albert. What goes wrong here? Do they stay separate from those on the beach?
3. Penny’s boat including Desmond, Kenny Rodgers. Penny was only looking for Desmond so I don’t think she’ll continue searching for the Island. These are such strong characters that I think we’ll see more of them since she is Widmores daughter.
4. Daniel (and the Red Shirts). Maybe he rescues Jin, since he was on his way to the freighter. He has the knowledge to find the island again, he found it for Widmore. We were left hanging as to whether he went with the island when it disappeared. I thought there was a brief flash to his zodiac to show he saw it disappear as well. Maybe I’m mistaken. I believe he will be a key character since he has so much motivation. He’s obviously a genius and knows much about the island, and he has a love interest that still is alive on the island. There’s more to his back-story that we don’t know about, like why did he have a breakdown when he saw the video of Oceanic 815?
5. The O6 which now includes Ben. They all have various reasons for wanting to go back, but only Jack seems to be falling apart because of it. Hurley is plagued by visitations from “dead people” and I can’t think of a reason going back would help him. Kate probably wants Sawyer after seeing Jack turn into such a mess. Sayid wants revenge on Widmore, but going back won’t get him that. Sun must think Jin is alive, or at least wants revenge.
7. Widmore. I like the idea that Sun is attempting to coerce him somehow in order to get back to find Jin. The idea that Widmore was the previous leader of the island is very interesting. Banished via the frozen donkey wheel as Ben was…
My brain is numb from all the reveals and new questions in this awesome episode. Best season ever.
I have a few minor nit-picks that bugged me while I watched. Why does Hollywood always make Helicopter crashes so unrealistic?? Helicopters don’t fall out of the sky if they run out of gas. The rotor blades don’t stop turning or slow down. They Autorotate. A helicopter would simply descend (under control) to the surface of the water and flare and then settle gently. This always bugs me when I see it portrayed as a crash. In almost every case you would simply swim free as soon as the rotors stopped when they strike the water. Few people have ever died from running out of gas in a helicopter.
My other complaint is with the heart rate monitor device. How the hell did it work so far under the earth? That was a huge stretch for me. Nothing could transmit that far. And Why didn’t Locke slide it on to his own arm?
Minor annoya