The woman wasn’t killed. Toward the end of the episode, the surgeon tells Jack that her surgery went well. This was the surgery Jack wanted to perform himself.

Just a quick fact check.

I do like the idea (Tulsa Jeff) that the woman driving on the bridge killed by Jack’s actions is Juliet’s sister. Sort of like how Jack’s attempts to rescue his future wife essentially killed Shannon’s dad. (Juliet’s family could easily have gotten from Miami to LA over several years.) However, I doubt that Juliet is in the coffin. Imagine the irony if she was.

Can’t wait to read the next few posts - Ryan and Jenn, thanks for keeping the fire stoked.

With everything the Others have put the loties thru, would you not think they would be scared to death of them? After all this time, tauting them, killing them, sacring them, obducting them…. How can they still believe that they are somehow the “Good Guys” as Ben puts it?

My reach into the future. The last episode witll have some of our losties (Jack, Sayid, Juliette, Hurley, etc) in a silient and triumphent return to the island. At which point of course - Locke is now in charge….

–
Hibernating ’til Feb. 2008,
JerMander

“The name of the funeral home (Hoffs/Drawlar) anagrams to “Flash Forward.”

Yes, indeed:
http://lostwhispering.blogspot.com/

Harold Perrineau’s pilot was reportedly not picked up, by the way.

However, after reading your excellent research into the background of the artist John Lantham, I am pursuaded that it most likely is Michael. If Michael and Walt successfully returned to civilization and then did nothing to help their fellow Losties get rescued, then the attitude toward his death makes sense. I also find it interesting that whatever happened to Michael (if it is Michael) drove him to commit suicide (or was it?) Also, assuming Walt is still alive, why wasn’t he at the funeral?

There is a screencap of the coffin and next to it is a table with a book on it. What could that be? A journal detailing the truth? A sketch book? A guest book? Some think it is the journal Ben kept on the Island.

*sigh* So many questions…..

I know the article Jack tore out of the paper talks about a mans death and funeral arrangements, but Lost props have been way wrong before!

I believe the person in the casket is Julliet.

Kate would have no reason to see her funeral, so that makes sence.

Her sister and nephew would have come to LA to see the funeral, but of course her sister saw a man on a bridge about to jump in and had a wreck!! Thats why no one else showed for the viewing.

Thoughts?

Jeff

I thought the coffin looked a little small, too. But it’s Hawaii. Maybe that’s all they had to shoot with at that particular moment and they didn’t think anyone would notice (but LOST fans notice everything). Perhaps it’s too expensive to be buried in Hawaii, so there isn’t an abundance of coffins there.

Jack’s dad was referrenced twice — “let’s get him down here” to the new chief of surgery and at the drug store with the prescription issue. If he’s still alive, why is there a new chief of surgery? Visual - Jack’s brain — two eggs in the skillet rapidly frying.

And Jack being reported as the “hero doctor” on the news. The TV press would have also cross-referrenced Jack as being one of the miraculous survivors of Flight 815. Wait, something ain’t right here…

Did they return to a different world where they can make critical changes based on their experiences of personal redemption? Maybe Kate doesn’t kill her step dad and marries her childhood sweetheart, Dr. Tom (his toy airplane sets on their fireplace mantle or bookcase)? Perhaps Jack doesn’t rat on his dad? Maybe a lot of stuff?

This is my personal request to ABC and Bad Rabbit (more rabbits…); Air 4-episodes in the Fall, then 12-straight starting in March 08. Come-on, you can do that, right? Or air 4, then 8, then 15, then 16, then 23, then…

Congrats to Dave, wife and family!

I’d like to hear what Connie in Alaska and Jen might think.

I would not, however, put too much faith in the closed captions. They are notoriously inaccurate for things such as live events. Whether ABD furnishes the actual script, I don’t know, but if they don’t, the “either/neither” distinction is probably left to some not-very-well-paid person’s best guess.

Jack may have also been having a “who gives a —-” moment when he said “either” (or “neither”), much like when he suggested the new sugrical chief contact his father. It’s sometimes difficult to answer a closed-ended question like that (e.g. checking into a hotel for a funeral and being asked, as per custom, “here for business or pleasure?”) and if your disposition or congition is a certain way, you might give the old “Whatever.” Or, if you’re not a teenager, “either.”

I wouldn’t read too, too much into the size of the coffin. I have to assume coffins come in fairly standard sizes; adult and child. That did not look like a child-size coffin.

Michael in the coffin makes sense since his family was Walt, and that’s it. His ex-wife was dead/dying when they left on flight 815.

The weblinks didn’t post correctly, above.. so let me try again..

Background info on Michael can be found at weblink
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Dawson_(Lost)

Background info on John Lathum can be found at weblink
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Latham_(artist)

RePost of possible “leaked” Obit column that Jack had, probably from someone in the Lost production crew..

“The body of John Lantham of New York was found shortly after 4 am in the 4300 block of Grand Avenue. Ted Worden, a doorman at the Tower Lofts complex, heard loud noises coming from the victim’s loft. Concerned for tenants’ safety, he entered the loft and found the body hanging from a beam in the living room. According to Jaime Ortiz, a police spokesman, the incident was deemed a suicide after medical tests. Latham (sic) is survived by one teenaged son. Memorial services will be held at the Hoffs-Drawlar Funeral Home tomorrow evening.”

If the leaked Lost Obituary column is accurate (see my earlier post, above), and if it came from someone on the Lost product crew (it had to, because it was impossible to see all the obit words no matter how much you use freeze-framed).. then there is only one person who could be in the coffin.

…. (drum roll please).. it’s Michael.. who was from New York, and has a teenage son… but here’s more proof! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Dawson_(Lost)

The Obituary name, “John Latham” (spelled this way once, and the other time “Lantham”), points to Michael. John Latham (who was a famous dead Black artist) could have been the new alias used by Michael (who was an artist and probably knew a lot about other famous artists) because he killed 2 people on the Island and had to go into hiding when he got back (as Ben told him he would).

Also, it was reported that Flight 815 perished with ALL passengers.. so don’t you think that Michael would attract unusual attention if he was found alive? He had to find a new name… so why not use the name of an artist he might have admired, John Latham.

Michael was the ONLY Lostie who could possibly find the Island again, which would certainly help Jack go back. Remember, Michael sailed back to civilization using Ben’s compass directions. So Michael knows exactly where he LANDED.. which means it is possible to reverse course and go back to the Island from where he landed. This would be a good reason for the bad guys to kill Michael and make it look like a suicide.. just to keep anyone else from finding out how to get back the Island.

Also, Michael has a teenage son who could have easily run away from Michael again (using his “powers”) and gone back to the Island (or somewhere else in the time-space continuum

Kate would be still angry at Michael for leading them into a trap on the Island after murdering two Losties. And she would be mad because Michael was rewarded for the deception and murder by being given a boat by Ben. So why would Kate want to go to Michael’s funeral?

BTW.. the TV Close-Caption says that Jack said that Michael was “neither” friend or family (not either). Jack was no buddy of Michael’s.

And obviously, the funeral home is in a part of “Black LA,” run by an African-American funeral Minster/owner… an area where Michael could easily have been hiding and living.

It gets even more amazing. The real black artist John Latham created a concept called “flat time.” Basically Latham said that “the present moment in passing time can only be made sense of when related to what has already gone, the past.” Sounds like he’s is talking about reasons for Lost’s flashbacks.

Read more about John Latham’s Flat Time concept here, which could also be used to describe the Time-Loop theory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Latham_(artist)

More reason’s why it’s Michael..
Walt showing up in the episode could have been a clever sign (by the writers) to devilishly point back to Michael

Jack could have found out Michael’s new name the same way Locke found out information about his dad and Sawyer.. from Richard Alpert, who can get info on anyone.

Soo.. besides Michael not being 5 feet tall (if the “guessed casket size” is correct).. why wouldn’t it be Michael?

…… when we see Jack in this episode is “NOT” the be all end all wrap up of our story. I see it like this :

Time Theorists : I agree w/ whoever said the show would lose a lot of viewers if they spend very little time on the island in the coming years. However, I do not think that where / when we see Jack in this episode is the be all end all wrap up of our story. I see it like this :

What happened on the island happened exactly the way it did. We have seen the past, we have seen the island time and now we are seeing bits from what is going on now ( about 3 years after the island ). This is supported by the appearance of the KRAZR phone and all. I figure that the show is moving in real time, but the island story took a long time to explain. Now the writers have to finish the story. I think that by the time the show ends in 2010 we will continue to see events from 2008,09,10 some while they are happening and some in flahsback to cover the missing years we are now pondering ( 2004end,2005,06). This will give the writers a vehicle for moving the story past Jack’s downfall. This will give them time to explain the hunt for answers to the islands mystery. It will also allow a lifeline and the ability to track down those responsible to get answers off the island like Widmore, Paik Industries, mainland DHARMA, etc.

HeyBrah — nice connection btw Widmore and Ben. Maybe the friction btw Des and Mr W is why they left Desmond relatively alone?

One maybe interesting idea regarding the obit:
“The body of John Lantham of New York was found shortly after 4 am in the 4300 block of Grand Avenue. Ted Worden, a doorman at the Tower Lofts complex, heard loud noises coming from the victim’s loft. Concerned for tenants’ safety, he entered the loft and found the body hanging from a beam in the living room. According to Jaime Ortiz, a police spokesman, the incident was deemed a suicide after medical tests. Latham (sic) is survived by one teenaged son. Memorial services will be held at the Hoffs-Drawlar Funeral Home tomorrow evening.”

What if Michael’s name is not really Michael? What if his given name is something like John Michael Lantham? Possible, yes? (I realize IMDB lists his name as Michael Dawson, but bear with me…) He’s from NYC. (Yes?) He leaves the island w/ Walt and goes back to LA. He is not allowed to tell anyone about the island, maybe he takes an assumed name. He would (in the future) have a teenaged son, Walt. It also seemed fairly clear that the writers were trying to make a point about the funeral home being in a predominantly African-American neigborhood. Just a wild thought… who else do we know with a teenaged son?

After reading Dan in San Diego’s post about the obituary/death notice I had a thought. By the way, I have seen enhanced screencaps of that article and I am amazed that someone was able to decipher it all! Anyway, the name doesn’t connect with any of the characters in the show (except for the first name of “John”). It also goes on to say that the body was found hanging from the victim’s loft. Maybe it was one of the other Losties…the Red Shirts or Sock Puppets or background characters. Maybe he was the last one (other than Jack, Kate and her mysterious “he”) left from those that had been rescued.

http://lost-and-gone-forever.blogspot.com/

To anyone’s knowledge, has anyone in fact “dissected” any of the whispers?

Jennifer, I also find it interesting that the Others have killed far fewer folks than the Losties… However, the Others’ ability to threaten, insinuate, and subtly and creepily do all kinds of weird things is obviously the reason. The Losties are responding to subtle, unknown threats by being willing to kill a fair number of folks– pretty heavy stuff, actually.

Which brings me to Sawyer, and my continued worry about his soul. Obviously killing his parents’ murderer (and his namesake– how weird is it that he chose the guy’s name for his own?) took its toll and seems to be turning him back to “the dark side” at the moment… His remorseless killing of Tom was scary, I thought… Plus, Kate is very uncertain about a relationship with him and has expressed such, in a sense… So I fear that Sawyer’s brief moment in the sun of partial redemption is fading. Hence I fear it may be him in the casket (though obviously there is the matter of the size of the thing, etc.). Sawyer is in a lot of ways friendless because of his continued choices toward going it alone, selfishness, etc.

And the sadness, heaviness and poignancy of Jack’s current situation is still weighing on me. Anyone else feeling that? I’m so worried about the guy– he’s been thru so much and tried so damned hard! Despite his hardheadedness, he surely is one of the show’s great heroes and deserves some sort of goodness in his life. That’s one of the great powers of the show… getting us right into the beings of this outrageously loveable gang. Please, dudes, bring him and Kate together!

Shit, 8 months?! Don’t know how I’ll last!

Dave, many congratulations on your wonderful event…. Obviously you and your wife weren’t stuck on the island! Blessings to you guys and the new one! (is her name Kate?!)

Reason being: Desmond’s turning of the key helped Penelope (and Daddy Whitmore) locate the anomaly known as the “the Island.” Penelope’s dad is behind the entire mission and she just happened to stumble upon the video chat set-up in her dad’s office (as posted earlier on).

Having seen how evil, vile, and repulsive, Daddy Whitmore is, it is completely understandable why Ben is desperately attempting to prevent telephone contact with Whitmore’s ship. Question: who is (or was) the most evil? … Penelope’s Dad? … or Locke’s Dad?

“The body of John Lantham of New York was found shortly after 4 am in the 4300 block of Grand Avenue. Ted Worden, a doorman at the Tower Lofts complex, heard loud noises coming from the victim’s loft. Concerned for tenants’ safety, he entered the loft and found the body hanging from a beam in the living room. According to Jaime Ortiz, a police spokesman, the incident was deemed a suicide after medical tests. Latham (sic) is survived by one teenaged son. Memorial services will be held at the Hoffs-Drawlar Funeral Home tomorrow evening.”

“Has anyone else noticed that Charlie and Desmond could have just chopped the elctric cable on the beach in two pieces and saved everyone the trouble?”

The cable from the Looking Glass to the island was denoted on the blueprints Sayid was examining as a tethering cable, not a power cable.. The power source must come from another location, or the thing must be self powered.

1) The Hostiles, the original people of the island were probably living in this “special” island like how Adam and Eve were before the temptaion incident. Naked, enjoying the gifts of the island, until Dharma came to exloit it and call it their own.

2) Ever since then, they have been trying to get their island back.

3) Ben, a defector from Dharma has been assigned to be the islands “protector”, but I think his judgement has started to go askew.

4) So I think Locke will be the next Ben. I think Jacob has his eyes on him

That’s it so far… I am sure to visit again and add nore insights…

“Although leaving a grenade in water for hours may hinder its exploding capabilities, priming a grenade … Because of this, an AN-M14 can burn underwater. …”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_grenade

http://www.answers.com/topic/hand-grenade-2

If it weren’t for the sheer ecstasy, I might be having bigger withdrawal. I somehow got sucked into a 45 minute post last night (”Are you writing on that Lost web site?” asks my wife) that DIDN’T GO THROUGH. Ugh.

Anyway, a few thoughts:
- How can a hand grenade go off underwater? Doesn’t the gunpowder or immolative agent get sodden?
- I think the Jack shout-outs to Christian were intentional… he was drugged up, but I do think he knew his dad was dead. Defiant, stubborn Jack does not care. It also preserves the dramaticc onceit until the big reveal at the end.
- In the coffin? No idea. Maybe Jacob? Seems to me like it’s clearly someone everyone else was ok leaving behind. Maybe the newspaper article/obit was planted as a means of trying to call people together?
- Bummed Tom was killed. But aside from him and Charlie those deaths hardly sent a ripple in the water of the Lost landscape. (And I’m ok with that.)
- At first I thought the Hurley van episode was useless feel-good puff. Now we know it’s where Ben murdered his dad, touched off the purge, and where Hurley killed Ryan to save the day. Makes a lot more sense in retrospect.
- This episode gave some fuel to the time loop theories, but never in a million years did it cross my mind that Charlie would have somehow programmed the sequence to be Good Vibrations and remembered how to play it but not the code or where the switch was. I’m sorry to whoever posted but MAN is that a stretch.
- The person above who said months = weeks on the island… cool thought. There’s some kind of science behind this that I vaguely remember, but not a “time loop.” Time slows down as you approach the speed of light via Einstein’s relativity theory (I think). So if you could travel at the speed to light (which would be a bumpy ride, as they keep calling it), when you returned you would have barely aged while the people you left behind would have done so greatly.
- Not sure at all how Kate is no longer a fugitive… although she could be (they never say she’s not and her OGM does not identify her by name).
- I like the idea that Charles Widmore may also be looking for Desmond and Naomi may be with him.
- Lastly… I had a feeling we’d see a paradigm shift this episode (I posted here before about how each season finale seems to do this) and I wonder if now that we have a finite endpoint, if they wil completely dismiss with the flashbacks and only do flash forwards. That would save us the “Bernard learns how to do a root canal” or “Claire listens to Morrissey for the first time” episodes. It would also provide a semblance of symmetry. I have to believe that much of the action will remain on the island (there’s too much story left to tell) but now it will be a question of how they get from middle to end, rather than from beginning to middle. I think if they have left the island and it’s all about picking up the pieces (which interestingly Kate was doing ok with and Jack was obviously not) that they’ll lose a lot of viewers.

THAT being said, last season ended in a snowstorm, and the last time we saw that was, well, never again. So the flash forward may have all been a distraction.

May 24th, 2007 at 5:41 am
I just don’t know how you can have an intelligent conversation with someone about this program after last night. Face it.

I agree - - I’m trying to get a few friends who have not watched caught up - - I find myself holding back from explaining things so I don’t spoil it…but I’m not so sure I could spoil anything in a logical way….it’s the fun I guess. I’ve got other friends who don’t plan to start watching….and it’s just as impossible to even explain what the heck it is “about”…..their loss….

Question : I thought Jack told the funeral director “Either” when asked if the person was friend or family…I replayed it several times…did anyone else hear this?

Question : I thought Jack told the funeral director “Either” when asked if the person was friend or family…I replayed it several times…did anyone else hear this?

People who would resist leaving the island: Locke, Kate, Rose, Bernard, Ben. Not sure about Richard, Mikhal or that Jacob guy.

the Temple sounds fascinating. See “you all” in 2008.

Did you notice the Dharma sign on the looking glass station. It was a rabbit! Alice in Wonderland strikes again!

Too bad it didn’t contain Jack’s wife, Sarah. Jack restored her ability to walk (with help, I suspect, from Mittlelos) married her, worked his butt off and she treats him like dirt. Won’t even give him a ride home. He KISSED another woman, but shamefully admitted it. There has to be more to their story or she is a just One Stone-Cold Super B.

I posted earlier that Charlie could have never nailed Good Vibrations on the number keypad. That song even has several movements / melodies — which melody do you choose to key-in? One mistake and you have to start over. BS - but makes a good drama and we’ll always love Brian, Carl, Dennis, Al and Mike.

I’m not sure Patchy could have blown the hatch port hole with a hand grenade. The explosion would have radiated in all directions and not just toward the glass. The water pressure would also supress the blast and that looked like a heavy duty facility. Since we didn’t see any blood or body parts rush into the communications room following the explosion — Patchy Lives to cause more mischief and mayhem.

Cheers for Patchy’s makeup!!!!!!; Jeers for Jack’s beard. I don’t care what you say Connie in Alaska, his beard would have looked more realistic drawn on with a magic marker.

I remember (way back) they found a glass eyeball in the Arrow Hatch and I assumed it was Mikhal’s. I assumed wrong.

However, if one of the Others who had been on the Island for a long time (like Richard Alpert) were returned to civilization, maybe his body would rapidly age. Very old people tend to shrink and wither, so maybe the casket holds the shriveled dried up husk of someone like Ben or Richard or maybe even Jacob.

Think about it. If Desmond had let Charlie get killed by lightening (the first Time Loop :-), they might never have gotten off the island, Jack’s father would still be dead, and so on

Claire (if Jack didn’t know they were related)

Rose (she died of cancer)

Richard Alpert (he lost his immortality after he left the Island)

Julliet (she could have left Jack after she left the island.. so was neither friend nor relative)

Patchy (he lost his immortality after he left the island)

Vincent (he was almost human.. woof woof)

Bernard (he lost Rose, and died from lonliness)

Ben (except Jack vowed to kill Ben just before they left the Island)

Sayid (could have turned on Jack after leaving the island)

Desmond (I don’t think him and Jack were really best buds)

So….
I’m going to pick Locke as the most likely casket dweller

Charlie was able to work out the code on the first try because he had the first number, 5–he even wrote it down, right? He just couldn’t remember all the rest of the numbers until he was told what the melody was, and he worked it out from there.

I have never been a “talk to the TV while I watch” person, but I was talking/hollering constantly last night. Good thing my daughter was doing it too and we were the only ones watching in the house.

Bonnie mentioned before dying that the machine had been built by a musician. IF we are to believe the theory that the Losties are living in a time loop, then who’s to say that in one of these loops, the Losties become the others, and Charlie is the one who builds the machine. That would explain how he knew to play the code so easily.

And Kudos especially to all the actors for their brilliant work. Matthew Fox was so convincing as the despondent Jack, that I knew right off the bat we were seeing a changed Jack of the future.

One more thought….even if we were shown the name in the newspaper clipping (which appear to be a J. Wrentham) whose to say the name is not an alias….maybe someone from the Island was placed in WPP?

I also noticed the new Motorola KRZR (tm, ?) phone and thought those weren’t around in 2004 or earlier. The producers have been too careful or they’ve been cute about prop placement (washing machines) to overlook something so obvious.

The episode was beautiful in its ambiguity and mystery while still being satisfying. That to me was the real artistry of the episode. How to reveal enough to leave us fulfilled but clever enough to keep us guessing. BRAVO!

Was Sawyer struggling with his killing Locke’s father in cold blood? He was over it when it came time to deal with big Tom.That was one of the best lines of the season…”That’s for taking the kid off the boat.”

Theory 2 – Why can’t Jack & Kate be together in the future? Was a deal struck to get off the island with who ever was expecting Kate at home?

Theory 3 – There is no more reasons for back stories. We know they get rescued. Will we now see what happens to everyone after rescue with the final episode being the rescue?

As for Christian, there are a myriad of explinations for that that I’m sure will be explored thouroghly by Theory Mongers over the break. I can’t wait to see what people come up with.

What about the 4 toe’d statue along the river bank?

I noticed something last night that could be insignificant, but we all the the writers don’t place too many details by accident these days, esp knowing that viewers eventually will notice eVErything. When Jack’s ex-wife came to the hospital as the official “next-of-kin”, did anyone else notice that she was pregnant? I found it curious that he didn’t comment on her condition, and I wonder if the visual was just meant to be just an additional kick-in-the gutt for him. Why would it have been “inappropriate” for her to take him home from the hospital? Awkward, maybe, but why come down to the hospital at all? If Jack and gang were offically declared dead from the plane crash but then found alive, wouldn’t that have cleared up the next-of-kin issue when Jack first “died”? Again, maybe it’s nothing.

One other revelation that I hope is explored next season, yet rarely commented upon…Claire is Jack’s half-sister, which makes Aaron Jack’s half-nephew. Can we also assume that Paolo and Nikki are dead by now? I’m still not sure if they had a point after all.

It will be a long eight months!