Why doesn’t he have a flash about what the Others are doing, and stop them!

Some vessels have obviously “punched through” the island’s curtain. Black Rock, Danelle’s boat (???), Smuggler’s plane (???) Desmond’s boat, Flight 815. I don’t think the “rough ride” is from the sub, but perhaps through the portal.

Maybe supplies are NOT dropped from the sky, but rise from underground? Maybe Cuse and Lindelof are actually Penn and Teller?

Also, Charlie hasn’t died yet as per any of his other visions.

So Des tries to do the honorable thing, but poor old bastard Charlie decides that the way to glory and salvation is in being martyred and clocks Des. It’s realy, in my opinion, not out of Character with the Charlie who abducted Sun or fought with Locke or Des. It’s just that now he’s being selflessly selfish (selfishly selfless?).

Plus, things have a way of course-correcting. Charlie was meant to go to the looking glass. But is it fate? Or coincidence?

I still can’t figure out why Charlie konked Desmond on the head. I forgot to mention that. It actually kind of bugged me. In fact, the whole conversation on the rowboat was confusing. Desmond tries to talk Charlie out of going at the last minute, even though he knows exactly what has to happen. And then, instead of having a discussion about Desmond’s visions, Charlie just smacks him. Why?

I’d forgotten about Walt and Yemi appearing on the island. I always thought that what made Walt appear to Shannon was entirely different from what made Eko’s brother and Jack’s dad appear.

I don’t think Annie is Kate. Or Danielle. I think Annie is still around but we haven’t met her as an adult yet.

Dan — I do like your theory a lot, I simply find it too difficult and abstract to be the theme of a mass market TV show. Time-space disturbances and 5th and 6th dimensions are heady stuff. Then again, the Matrix was a huge box-office success. I do agree entirely that the Desmond episode has major significance in the grand scheme of things; I’m just not sure how literally we’re meant to interpret what happened to him.

Also, in hindsight, most of us tend to rationalize our behaviors (e.g. because I did X, Y, and Z, I wound up on the island) even if there is no clear cause and effect sometimes. Des in particular seemed to take on the button-pushing as his “mission” when he realized that he brought down 815. He may be, honestly (and to co-opt a handle from this blog) nucking futs, and all this is rationalization as to why he’s here. Deja vu kinda stuff (Charlie, I knew this was going to happen except in my vision you died, etc.).

Keep in mind the familiar Locke mantra: don’t mistake fate with coincidence.

Great post. I just have one correction. Kate’s horse is seen by Sawyer at the end of the episode.

Thanks! 32.5 hours!!!

We have seen some form of damage on the Black Rock, and of course Oceanic Flt. 815. Ethan described “a rough ride” to Juliette in Portland. And of course, there is Naomi’s Helo.

I don’t remember seeing anything that would explain why the Sub would experience turbulence so near the island if everyone was transported via “The Looking Glass”.

The plane that drops supplies may drop them from a higher altitude to avoid the type of destruction that we have seen on air and sea vessels. Does anyone else find it a bit odd that Flt. 815 was flying so low?

I’m not trying to “disprove” anyone’s theory, but I would like to understand how these things might be explained.

Dave.. I enjoyed reading the points you made. And true, space-time is much more complex than my example of a sheet of flat paper. Still, the writers have written in details about a very powerful magnetic force on the Island that can do mysterious things.. violently pushing and pulling matter and energy.. which could mean that magnetism is an easy explaination for distortions.

I think the Time-Loop idea of things repeating until they are done correctly was almost explained in the Desmond’s “Flashes Before Your Eyes” episode. Here is a recap of what I think was the most important episode of all of Lost

“Oh my God,” Desmond says, “you knew that was going to happen, didn’t you?”

The Pawn Shop lady nods.

“Then why didn’t you stop it? Why didn’t you do anything?”

“Because it wouldn’t matter. Had I warned him about the scaffolding tomorrow he’d be hit by a taxi. If I warned him about the taxi, he’d fall in the shower and break his neck. The universe, unfortunately has a way of course correcting. That man was supposed to die. That was his path. Just as it’s your path to go to the island. You don’t do it because you choose to, Desmond, you do it because you’re supposed to.”

“I’m going to meet Penny in an hour. I’ve got a ring. She’ll say yes. I can choose whatever I want.”

“You may not like your path, Desmond, but pushing that button is the only truly great thing that you will ever do.”

How’d they get there? So far, NOTHING explains it. Only thing that comes close is a portal or transporter beam. OR MAYBE it got there with a crane; operated by Dharma/Covert Government/Halliburton people?

I think everything on this show will be explained simply. It’s like the movies, “Planet of the Apes” and “Sixth Sense” or a good episode of Twillight Zone. You make up all this stuff in your mind while you’re watching it, when all-along it was obvious. Then you slap your forehead and say, “doh-h”.

Wispers in the jungle? A good Bose system.

I wonder how many clues have been left by the producers that no one ever caught? We’re all taking a ride. An entertaining ride at that.

Dan from SD, I do like the example of points on a piece of paper. The only problem is that points on a piece of paper are two dimensional. (The physical dots are three dimensional but in the analogy of the flat piece of paper there is no depth.) Distorting the paper adds a third dimension. Observing it over time adds a fourth. To add two dimensions into a 4-D world (like what we live in, which is 3-D and progresses through time, a fourth dimension) already gets into things beyond the realm of most people’s ability to think and reason.

This is one of my major pet peeves with the “Time Loop” theory. If there is a time loop, who is the central character? And that person can effect change on everyone else that they are powerless over? It’s an interesting metaphysical (not sure if that’s the right term) argument, I guess, but virtually impossible to turn into a coherent linear narrative like a television show. For instance, if Des can affect change, why not keep going back in time until he makes things right with Penny (a la Groundhog Day)?

Bill.. about Mr Eko’s brother and plane getting to the Island, I think it’s possible it all was another creation by the island, just like seeing Jack’s Dad, Kate’s horse, and Smokey the monster. Or, if space-time is being bent and twisted, it’s possible for mass to jump around thru time and space in non-linear ways that we are not used to.

An example would be if space and time is like a flat sheet of paper, and you put two dots on the paper and laid the paper flat.. the dots would be a set distance from each other. But if you folded or crumpled the paper in various ways (like Space-Time distortion), suddenly the dots could become much closer to each other in an infinite number of ways.

I can hear some of you saying.. “forget science, just enjoy the show”.. I am, even more so because the writers have given us an endless number of ideas to think about.

When Sayid finally gets Naomi’s sattelite phone working, the screen lights up and there appears to be a radiating circle (as in pinpointing a location) just off the Pacific Northwest coast of Oregon or Washington. I immediately thought of the “Not in Portland” reference. It probably wouldn’t be the Island, but it could be “the other side” of the Looking Glass station.

I have always been curious about how Richard Alpert and other actual physical materials seem to get to the Island just when they are needed, and how it doesn’t seem like a big deal for the Others to get what they need from the Outside world. In the real wolrd (the one we live in!) those kinds of operations–getting things to and from one of the most remote points on the planet– would require massive amounts of energy, time and money in planning and implementing. On the other hand, it is TV land where no one looks up a number in a phone book, has to use the bathroom or wakes up looking like a zombie in the morning.

Maybe it’s not time travel, but transporter beam of some type. It’s 2-way - Ethan and Richard interacted with Juliet.

I hope the producers/writers of this series are not counting on people just forgetting about all this stuff they’ve piled-on and never explained very well.

Keep in mind, though, that Jack was shown the Red Sox winning the 2004 World Series (which happened October 27, 2004, 35 days after 815 crashed). So while time could be distorted, it has not arrested and at least until that point they did not live in a world of endless “time loop”s.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some alteration of time on the island — all the commentary about birthdays and the appearance that the Others do not age being the keys.

I know that the Lost Creators have told us that there is no time travel in Lost, but what if it wasn’t Time “Travel,” but it’s Time “Something else.”

Until the Lost Creators come right out and say that Time is not distorted in any way, shape, or form, I’m going to believe that there is something going on with Time on this show, which could be caused by the unusual magnetic properties of the Island.

Dave, who posted the spoiler–knock it off. Don’t be a jerk. Many posters here don’t even watch the “next week” teaser at the end of the show. There are plenty of places to go if you’re looking for spoilers and this isn’t one of them.

And fof those who pay attention to these things… I am not the Dave who posted any spoliers above, that Dave’s name links to a web site. I agree… speculation and theory are always welcome but if you KNOW you’re posting a spoiler please keep it to yourself. That’s different from watching the show on East cost time and posting before it airs on the West coast… if you don’t want to know what just happened then don’t read the posts until after the show.

Just good netiquette. Keep up the good posts!

Looking Glass either brought the helicopter down; OR the helicopter was really never there. (a la Penn and Teller)

The two chicks at Looking Glass reminded me of a James Bond movie. Hope Charlie gets laid before he dies! Charlie’s due. Claire is beautiful but is too busy taking care of the baby and keeping the tent clean to DO Charlie. She also thinks it’s a good idea to keep her distance from a guy who’s “gonna’ die”. She doesn’t want an arrow through her throat or a lighting bolt.

Looking Glass is the portal that connects the Island with Portland (get it — PORTLAND!) The phoney Mittlelos airstrip ( Herarat Aviation — Earhart, as in Amelia) is at the other end. Having to be asleep for the long, top secret flight is total BS. It might only take a few minutes.

Looking Glass is the Area 51 of LOST. Not many of the Others even know about it. Eathan and Goodwin did. Dick Cheney does, too. Even Juliet was given misinformation about it.

Let’s hope that the architects of Looking Glass didn’t design a single exposed switch that will flood the facility. If so, there’s probably a big sign on it. “Hey, Charlie, Look Flood Switch!!!”

i trust the writers will come up with something completely intriguing— just hope we don’t lose too many losties before that happens.

I would hate for the show to end as they all file into helocopters or a rescue boat and ride off into the sunset. There’s no redemption in that. What happens next?? Do they all exchange numbers and hang out in Vegas together once a year? Does Kate still run? Does Syid run into Naomi somewhere? I want to know what happens AFTER the island.
My favorite part of that movie Castaway was when Tom Hanks got back to his own bed for the first time. He was so used to sleeping on the groud for so long, he couldn’t even sleep in the comfortable bed. Also, the scene of him flipping on and off the light switch and the pain he felt when he came to the realization that life back home had moved on without him. Yet, the ending still left us with hope as he started to build a new existance. There’s your redemption.

Dave, I’m fine with your sharing on Michael Emerson, in part because it means Our Locke May Indeed Live! And Audrey, any one of us could have seen the same show Dave did, so chill! But could the “something he gave up” be… his kidney? Or even, self-love?

Audrey : THANK YOU - - I ALMOST READ WHAT THAT SAID AND AGREE - NO SPOILERS

really quick: as I’m tired of theory at this point and just love to watch.

Dave : I checked the episodes…Charlie had on a different shirt and stuff when Desmond met him outside and recognized him in the flashback scene…he was singing the same song, and it rained ( I”ve never been to Manchester, but I think it rains a lot there. Coincidence? ) but must have been a different day/loop or whatever. At first I thought the same thing. It was definitely Nadia.

To all :

I have not seen this mentioned this way here that I can remember, but I always got the impression that Ben did not necessarily kill ALL the DHARMA folks. He made a comment to Locke about “I was one of the people smart enough not to end up in that ditch”. I thought this meant that perhaps some other (sorry for that word ) DHARMA peeps must have been/could have been along w/ the takeover. This could mean that Mikhal, new chicks in The Looking Glass, and anyone else around Ben besides R. Alpert, Juliette and maybe a few more were there w/ DHARMA originally but they were unhappy or decided to throw there lot in w/ Benry after he approached them and swayed them to his plan. I figure that would account for there perhaps still being 2 sets of others…maybe Ben and Alpert made their own club mixed w/ DHARMA and hostiles who came to Ben along w/ R. Alpert.

Alpert left the hostiles thus making essentially 3 clubs.

1. Club Benry ( our favorite OTHERS to hate ).

2. O.G. DHARMA

A : ( DHARMA investors at home still operates under assumption things are o.k. on the island because Ben and Club Benry check in as if nothing is wrong so that they make food and supply drops.)

B : That, or they maybe have very few, none or limited numbers of people left financed by DHARMA ever since the purge.

3. O.G. Hostiles ( who are the super-human non-aging ghost people natives ).

All comments, suggestions, or thoughts are welcome!

Credit to the Writers for the Manchester references between Charlie & Naomi. Night & Day cafe is a real music venue in Manchester with about a 300 capacity. website url is http://www.nightnday.org/. The actress that plays Naomi used to be in a brilliant UK show set in Manchester called Burn It, before she went onto Las Vegas of course…

Not sure about the accent of the guy playing Charlie’s Dad in the Butlins flashback, we couldn’t work out if he was supposed to be Irish, Welsh, Scottish or from Northern England!

If I remember correctly, I believe Damon and Carlton made a mention in the Official Podcast [a while ago] of us seeing Michael and/or Walt before the end of this season. I guess that means we may see them in the finale!

Any thoughts on Michael and Walt? Obvious questions: did they reach safety? Where did they go? Another boat? Land? Will they return with help (or at least send help)?

I was often frustrated with Michael as he was quite the hothead, and almost overly obsessed with finding Walt (to the exclusion of virtually every other issue).

It wouldn’t suprise me if Michael and Walt are part of the “cavalry” that finally come to the island at the end of the last season…or maybe the end of this season…

Continuity error of whether or not Charlie can swim? .. there is an easy explaination for the writers… (I know some of you are going to hate me)… how about different Time-Loops

This is by far the best LOST season yet!

Skepticism of Ben has gotten nobody anywhere. Locke was shot by him. Ana Lucia was (probably not coincidentally) shot by Michael, who was sent by the Others. Sayid hasn’t suffered much for it. Jack and Juliet, it remains to be seen. He screwed with Sawyer and Kate. He allowed Mikhail to get a beat-down and Juliet to be branded.

People who question Ben don’t usually stick around that long.

Great episode again, some of the English accents stink though.

And I’m pretty sure I remember someone - most likely Sayid or Kate - telling Danielle that they saw her daughter with the Others and that’s how they got her to go along and help them check out the place where Mikael was. And Danielle made a comment about being afraid to see Alex/her daughter.

Anyone else remember this? I’m not sure why people are thinking there is any doubt left that the two are mother and daughter. The main thing I’m waiting for is their reunion!

And Connie is right, it was the Hydra station where Jack was being held before - which was set up like it had been where they were keeping that Dharma shark at one point.

Leann - I don’t think Claire, Rose or Bernard are going to be any of the three who die… still wouldn’t count Charlie out, as his flashbacks seem to have run their course and we know what happens to characters once they have no backstory left to tell… Claire still has a lot of mystery and I think she’s probably still breastfeeding Aaron so I’m not sure how he’d survive if she were to go…. and killing Rose and Bernard would serve no purpose as far as I can see. They obviously have a lot of backstory to tell yet also, which may be especially important once the other stories start to run dry.

Melissa & jamieroberto - I also like the idea Annie might be a part of the “second group of Others” and is one of the women in the Looking Glass station.

I definitely think Annie will resurface, but I too doubt she’s one of the gals in the Looking Glass. I think she’s appear in a more surprising way, even. That said, who are these young gals, who are about Alex’s age? How could they have been born and survived? I almost had the feeling they were rebels in the same way the Losties are, and that they won’t turn out to be Others in the bad sense. But we’ll see!

Connie, interesting catch re Kate’s pseudonym! Hmmm…

I have been living spoiler free but will throw this out… the season finale each season has been a totally unexpected mind-bender, and each new season has started with a totally unknown (or close to it) character and perspective.
Season 1 ended as they opened the hatch and signified a transition from the wild to the hatch/DHARMA.
Season 2 started with Desmond (”hey, isn’t that the guy jack met while running?”) asnd ended with the destruction of the hatch and Penny being notified by some Portugese-speaking guys in the snow that they found something. In the meantime we learned about the Tailies and a lot more about the Others.
Season 3 started with Juliet (”that’s not Penny, is it?”) and now ends with chaos and death (I assume).

So I can only assume season 4 will open up a whole new paradigm and new characters, and season 3 will conclude in a spectacular fashion with just enough of a tease to keep our imaginations running wild for eight months.

Anyway, about the little girl Annie. You have to remember that the purge happened years ago. Deducing from Ben’s age then and now, the condition of the bodies in the pit of death and Roger Linus’ body, Alex’s age (I am assuming Ben acquired her after the purge) it had to have happened at least 15 or more years prior. Would Annie have been hiding in an underwater hatch or anywhere else on the Island for all that time? It doesn’t seem likely to me. For all we know she is still part of the Others group or she was gassed with everyone else during the purge or she left the Island. I am sure Ben had a hand in it whatever it was, and that ain’t good!

As I posted several weeks ago, I think Jack had a meeting with Ben just like the one Ben had with Juliette prior to rejoining the Losties.

I think Annie is in the Looking Glass. My guess is that she was there during the coup by Ben’s design, and Ben is telling the people that the hatch is flooded to prevent them from discovering her. This is his way of a) protecting her, or b) preventing him from losing her to another guy. Now he’s probably too ashamed to face her, his one true friend, after his betrayal, which is why he has left her there. Annie perhaps believes that Dharma is still at war with the hostiles and that Charlie is a hostile himself, reminiscent of my favorite movie, Underground.

I also think that the hatch must have had something to do with the helicopter crash, or perhaps Naomi was once one of the ladies in the hatch.

Lastly, why not just cut the cable to the underwater hatch? Wouldn’t that be easier than swimming down there?

Ben told The Others that the hatch flooded so none of them would go there, and keep Annie safe. And that’s why Juliette said Ben’s the only one who’s ever been there.

I would love that!

And I so don’t want Charlie to die. This episode won me back!

My theory on Desmond’s flashes is that they are intended to tell D what he needs to do to stop Charlie from dieing in order for something to happen. Like D had to save Charlie in order for Charlie to be there when they got Naomi out of the tree. So, D has to save Charlie to make sure he succeeds in his mission.

Connie in Alaska, you are absolutely right. Charlie expressed not knowing how to swim early int he show. To me, it is a little mistake the writers made. But I can live with it. After all, it would not be the first (or the last one).

Namaste.

I agree with Leeann that this epi was a “staging area” for the season finale.

People from any country can learn to speak any number of languages so why do people find it odd that Naomi speaks Portuguese? She has an ethnic look, perhaps she was raised in a multi-cultural household or maybe languages are part of her specialization in her job.

Where are you John Locke!?

1. Don their SCUBA gear that they luckily brought with them on their helicopter mission (!?)
2. Stumble upon the underwater station (at night, in the dark?)
3. Get inside.
4. Re-boot the station; pump water out

1. Don their SCUBA gear that they luckily brought with them on their helicopter mission (!?)
2. upon the underwater station (at night, in the dark?)
2. Get inside.
3. Re-boot the station; pump water out

/end theory

First of all, Sayid got the schematic of The Looking Glass when they were at Mikhail’s cabin. I think I soft of agreed with Jack about focusing on the impending ambush from the others first and then dealing with The Looking Glass and trying to get rescued.

Charlie’s acting in this episode was the best performance he’d had since early in season 1. I’ve been a little indifferent to all the rumors of his pending demise until tonight. I was pretty emotional about the way I thought his storyline was wrapping up. His goodbye hug to Hurley really got me. I love Hurley and I think Charlie really does too!

I’ve always kind of thought that one possibility was that something would happen to Claire and Charlie would be left with Aaron.

I loved that they tied Naomi into Charlie’s flashback!!

I’m thinking that Karl, Bernard and Rose are three possible fatalities for the season finale. Also, possibly Claire.

Will we see Annie again? Ben’s little girlfriend that made him the wooden doll? I don’t think we’ve seen the last of her…. not thinking that she got gassed.

We watched “The Man Behind The Curtain” again last night before watching “Greatest Hits” and I swear that we heard someone yell “Mikhail” right before the raid on the Dharma camp. We replayed it several times and it’s pretty clear.

Anyway, that’s just some of my thoughts.
Leeann

As for Charlie, I believe either there is a continuity problem, or Charlie had his “stash” of heroine on his person at the time. He didn’t want to ruin it in the ocean’s water, but also couldn’t discreetly store it at the time. I prefer to believe the latter since I’ve been stunned so far by the brilliant writing on this show.

It also shows the three “shooters” (Syaid, Jin and Benard) on their knees with their hands tied and the new bad ass other (Ryan?) in the foreground. The shooters seem to do some damage, but get caught.

And Charlie gets a great slap in the face from the blonde lady. That’s really cool in slow mo. Emmy for Charlie!

Seems like the Others are going to win this little battle - or at least they (the producers) want us to think that.

btw, where is jack taking everyone?

http://inventors.about.com/od/dstartinventions/a/Alfred_Nobel.htm

btw: there’s a strange similarity between the life of Alfred Nobel and Alvaro Hanso. Both men, one real, the other fictional, made their fortunes from making/selling implements of destruction who later went on to use their fortunes for the benefit of mankind.

Agreed that the Looking Glass itself is an amazing feat of … however they did that! What a cool and amazing structure! And great double play on the Alice in Wonderland theme, and its actual function.

I’m enraptured by all the episodes lately, no matter which turn they take! The writers seem to like to alternate between “soft” (more emotional) episodes and harder, more action-packed ones… no complaints here!