The Man Behind the Curtain
Because Ryan is a slacker, this week’s blog post is by Jen! — I have to admit; I am now very, very nervous. We’re in the last four hours of season three, and in this episode, we encounter an invisible man and another man who appears not to age. We see Ben’sd ead mother, somewhat confirming that Christian Shepherd’s reappearance on the island was not a figment of his son’s imagination. I’m wondering where all this is going.
The Others are much scarier and more threatening than I could have imagined and the survivors’ distrust of each other and lack of communication skills will certainly be their undoing. Jack, the de facto leader of the survivors, is the world’s biggest rube. The fact that such a spineless nitwit is a doctor, let alone that everyone seems to look up to him, is frightening.
Locke is some sort of Messiah. At least, Ben thinks Locke is some sort of Messiah. This scares and angers him. We see that Ben was a sneaky, sadistic S.O.B. from the very beginning, so what he does to Locke at the end of “The Man Behind the Curtain” is shocking, but not surprising. We found out a lot about Ben in this episode, but there’s certainly way more where that come from. Despite what he and Mikhail say, Ben is the most powerful man on the island, at least for now. He feels his power slipping and is resorting to some pretty drastic measures. I still think, despite what went on in Jacob’s cabin, that Ben is pretending to be under the sway of Jacob, whoever he is, and is using Jacob to intimidate his minions.
Few things on TV scare me. That one episode of The X-Files with the malformed lady under the bed made me sleep with the lights on for a week, and just the mention of Bob on Twin Peaks can still send chills up my spine. Other than that, I considered myself relatively scare-proof. Until the Jacob sequence in this episode. That was the scariest moment in the whole series so far. I don’t know who that figure is in the stills making their way ’round the net, but I’m too chicken to figure it out. I got the impression that nobody besides Ben had ever laid eyes on Jacob. The expressions on Tom and Alpert’s faces upon hearing about Locke’s impending visit make me wonder if they doubt Jacob’s existence, too.
Ben’s own daughter seems suspicious of his motives. Has she caught on? Why would Locke need a gun for a visit to someone who has previously been described as a loving, benevolent leader? I think she’s got his number, but how?
Where has Danielle been, anyway, besides looking for dynamite?
A volcano is coming into play. I don’t think the volcano is as dormant as Olivia tells the children it is. The ring of powder around Jacob’s house looks like ash.
Speaking of Alpert, he’s been on that island for quite a while. He asks Ben, “Do you remember birthdays?” — as if he’d stopped keeping track of them long ago. Why does Ben age, but not Alpert? I find it interesting that it seems as if Ben has become his superior.
Who is this Horace character? Is he Gerald De Groot? Horace Goodspeed sounds like an alias to me. Was De Groot in trouble with the law?
So Ben’s mom dies in childbirth, seven months into her pregnancy, much like the rest of the pregnant women under his watch on the island. I don’t know about you guys, but the whole baby/fertility subplot gives me the willies. I really hope Kate is not, in fact, pregnant.
Notes and Notions:
- Shut up, Kate. Sayid has more on the ball than you and everybody else in your camp combined, so stop talking to him like a child.
- Locke has got a bad, bad temper. Terry O’ Quinn plays Locke with such a great combination of hapless pathos, magical wisdom, and rage. We’ve been raving about Elizabeth Mitchell and Michael Emerson all season, but Terry can still blow me away, too.
- I still get a kick out of the fact that everyone on the island has either a dead parent or an evil parent or both. It’s like a big Disney movie, times fifty. I like to think it’s Damon and Carlton’s way of sticking it to the bosses at ABC. But it probably isn’t.
- How can Uncle Rico be so mean? No, Uncle Rico! Take that back!
- Like Kate, Ben kills his own father. Locke tells Kate in “Left Behind” that “they” don’t approve of what she’s done. Considering what Ben did to his old man and what ultimately happens to his body, Kate’s murder of her dad doesn’t seem like the kind of thing they should be concerned about. So what is this really all about?
- “The Man Behind the Curtain” discussions at TheFuselage.com, Lost-Forum.com, and Pop Candy
May 9th, 2007 at 11:08 am
Please don’t post “first post,” “w00t!” or spoilers. Mahalo!
May 9th, 2007 at 2:32 pm
I think we have some catching up to do !! lollll
May 9th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
wowwwwwwwwwww its look like a season finale !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
May 9th, 2007 at 5:01 pm
OH MAN OH MAN - i’m thinking there was a collective *gasp* across the eastern seaboard just a few minutes ago
May 9th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
PLEASE tell me it did not end like that!!!!!!!!!
May 9th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
Just four words: I am very confused!!!
May 9th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
Wow. An amazing episode but totally confused.
May 9th, 2007 at 5:06 pm
O.M.G.
May 9th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
I rarely yell at the television when I’m watching, but yeah - I just yelled an enormous “oh my god” moments ago. I didn’t see THAT coming. ;0)
Finally some answers to this twisted puzzle - and wouldn’t you know, still MORE questions. I can’t believe how consistently great this show has been this season.
May 9th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
So good!
May 9th, 2007 at 5:09 pm
Lost is blowing my f-ing mind!
May 9th, 2007 at 5:16 pm
I was literally screaming at the tv! That crazy bastard Ben must die! I am sick!
May 9th, 2007 at 5:22 pm
If anyone is interested, here is a picture of Jacob: http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=489159&view=findpost&p=588541266
Well, sort of. For anyone who saw the episode, you really don’t get to see Jacob but for a split second. Enjoy
May 9th, 2007 at 5:25 pm
This so could have be the season ender but I would have vomited and crapped my pants if they ended the season with Ben and Lock walking through the door to visit Jacob.
Really good episode overall, thoroughly enjoyed it! I hope Locke does not die! Only two more new episodes left!!! I cannot wait to see how the “game-change” occurs according to E! Online’s Kristin and why the writing staff will not need more than 48-any significance??- more episodes!!!!!
May 9th, 2007 at 5:26 pm
Unbelievable! And the scene in Jacob’s house gave me chills from the moment they crossed the line until after they left.
May 9th, 2007 at 5:31 pm
EVERY time they give us something, they take something away?
My head hurts, and my neighbors called the cops due to all of the yelling!!!
May 9th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
That was oh my god brilliant. I was at the edge of my seat the entire episode. Ben of course needed that ego drop when no one stopped Locke from beating Ol’ One Eye. He’s losing his followers and knows it they see Locke’s goodness and Ben’s evil. Ben is intimidated hence shooting Locke…Can’t wait to see what happens next…Be afraid Ben Very afraid…
May 9th, 2007 at 5:36 pm
a basket-full of answers and a boat load of questions… LOST producers/writers, you did it again; you are THE MASTERS.
May 9th, 2007 at 5:37 pm
Would someone PLEASE warn me about the train before it hits me next time.
May 9th, 2007 at 5:43 pm
Is it just me or am I the only one in thinking that Locke won’t die.
Maybe it’s just wishful thinking, but I think this is just another one of Ben’s master plans. And Ben knows that John’s gunshot wound won’t kill him.
Everything that has lead up to that: John “killing” his father, Ben “converting” John, etc…couldn’t all lead up to Ben ultimately killing John. That would mean that everything that Locke has been through, while with the Others, was a complete waste. I think we’ve seen the last of Locke for Season 3, but I don’t think he’s dead.
Oh, and I think Jacob is real too. Creepy.
WONDERFUL episode.
May 9th, 2007 at 5:45 pm
ok….so i thought i saw jacob for a like a second…and i think it was patchy? I cant find screencaps
May 9th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
Holly, Andrew, EVERYBODY Else…
Lost has not aired yet on the west coast, esp. Hawaii!!!
Be careful not to give too much away!!!
Can someone give me an aspirin?!?
May 9th, 2007 at 5:51 pm
Jacob is someone who has a VERY intimate knowledge of the island, AND also someone we know very well!!! (What a twist!!!)
If you have HD, and a DVR, you can make out who Jacob really is (with a long hairpiece).
What about Richard!!!
May 9th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
The episode blew my mind. I don’t have DVR so I’m dying to see the screencap. Here are some questions: Was that TNT on the ground by the crack? Could that be what Danielle was doing with all that dynamite last epi? Why are the losties going to start trusting Jack/Juliette now? Will they? Is this just another trap? It appears the “hostiles” don’t age. How long did Ben have to wait for his special day?
So good. And I do NOT think Locke is dead. He can’t be. He’ll heal in a day, just like Naomi!
May 9th, 2007 at 6:20 pm
OH GOSH I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO SORRY! I did not take that into consideration. SORRY!!!!!!
May 9th, 2007 at 6:55 pm
phonomenal episode. great ending.
May 9th, 2007 at 6:56 pm
that was great. i’m shocked, disturbed, but thoroughly entertained. a mass murder! fatricide! what a great hour! the best episodes seem to be locke related. i guess next season, we’ll learn all about Jacob. does anyone out there think that this is shades of psycho? it seemed obvious didn’t it? i’ll have to watch it again on my dvr to catch a bit of jacob. it would be ridiculous to me if they killed Locke. he’s one the strongest character and the perfect foil to (evil) ben.
May 9th, 2007 at 6:58 pm
screenshot of jacob: http://thelostlowdown.blogspot.com/
May 9th, 2007 at 7:42 pm
It is almost two oclock in the morning. I just can’t sleep after tonight’s episode of LOST. My head is turning, full of questions. I am going to try to organize them (so if you still have not seen it, STOP reading now) and perhaps I will feel better.
Ben pours two glasses of whiskey: one for himself, the other for Locke. Locke does not drink it, just like he did not drink the one glass his dad offered him right before throwing him out the window. And just like Desmond did not even get a glass of whiskey offered right before he was told he was no good for Penny. Moral: That whiskey seems to bring bad luck to those who do not get to drink it.
Hurley and Desmond are heard talking, right before Sawyer tells Sayid about Juliet’s recording. Hurley says: “Dude, it can’t be worse than haggis”. Desmond: “Oh, I could go for some haggis right now”. What are they talking about?
In 3-19, Naomi said to Sayid the freighter ship she’d taken off from was about “80 nautical miles to the west” of the island. In 3-20, Mikhail tells Ben she’d taken off from a freighter about “130 clicks to the west of us.” What “clicks” is Mikhail talking about?
When Locke beats Mikhail “senseless”, Ben calls Tom and Richard to action, but they do nothing and just look. Why? What repercussions will this indifference have in the future?
Why did Alex give Locke a gun saying he’ll need it if he was going to meet Jacob? What does she know about Jacob?
Roger and Horace are heard talking while young Ben pets his rabbit in bed. Horace says: “I heard you run into some trouble”. Roger replies: “We’re driving back from the plane and we hear this huge explosion…” What plane is Roger talking about? Can planes land on the island? Or they just “could” when Dharma was still operating?
The second time young Ben sees his mother on the island, she tells him “It’s not time yet, Benjamin” What is she talking about?
What is that powder on the ground that Locke examines near Jacob’s residence? It looks like gun powder; it looks like ashes. And it seems to be spread in a line that goes like a circle.
What about the man young Ben encounters in the jungle? Is he Richard? Or is he someone identical to Richard? Is that Jacob? If it is Richard, how come he has not aged? Even more, if you listen closely, the cadence, intonation and rhythm of his speech is identical to that of adult Ben, not like the Richard we have come to know so far. Is that just a coincidence?
That painting in Jacob’s house… what is it of? Why did the camera intentionally focused on it even longer than on Jacob himself? BTW, what we could see of him, he has long hair and a prominent forehead, just like Ben’s, or just like that of Christian Shepherd. Who is Jacob? Is he real? Or is he a figment of Ben’s imagination that can take physical form, yet briefly? Why does he get angry when the flashlight is pointed at him? How can he blow up windows and move objects violently across the room? Why does he say (apparently to Locke) “Help me”? Could Ben suffer Schizophrenia? Could one of his personalities be asking Locke for help? If the oil lamp falls off the table, breaks and the oil makes a fire, why is it intact when Ben puts it back on the porch when leaving?
“The Dharma Initiative. They came here seeking harmony and they couldn’t even coexist with the island original inhabitants”. I was right all along: the Others and the Hostiles are (should I say were) two different groups. Why did one group have “to be purged”? How was this purge planned and elaborated exactly? Who planned it?
And finally, is Locke going to die?
Favorite quote: “I guess there is a first time for everything”
I still can’t sleep.
May 9th, 2007 at 10:06 pm
OK, it’s four in the morning, and maybe I’m just scaring myself in the dark, but the screenshot submitted by paul in nyc LOOKS LIKE TERRY O’QUINN! In some kind of wig or headdress, yes, but… does anybody else see it? Could Locke be Jacob? Or vice versa? “Help Me?!” The creepiness factor of this show just went off the charts tonight…
May 9th, 2007 at 10:42 pm
Jim,
I think you are right on the money!
May 9th, 2007 at 11:30 pm
Fernado…
Roger said “We’re driving back from the FLAME and we hear this huge explosion…”
May 9th, 2007 at 11:32 pm
and the ash line in circle its a kind of protection for spirits…
May 10th, 2007 at 12:14 am
Wow. That was a great episode to watch with Ryan and Jen. We were all shocked when Locke was shot. I read tonight on Kristen’s site on E that Terry O’Quinn told here when she was in Hawaii that he has sold his Hawaii house supposedly because he prefers living in hotels. I dunno. The folks I’ve talked to on the North Shore say he loved living there. Somehow, I can’t believe that they’d kill off Locke. He’s probably the fans’ favorite character.
None of us in the crowd saw Jacob at all, yet I have to admit that the screencaps do make it look like Jacob is Locke with a hood on. I don’t think it’s human hair. Maybe the chaos that we saw happened because of a time paradox - two Locke’s in one room.
Or…maybe our Locke is dead and now we’ll see the Jacob Locke for the rest of the series. All of the hostiles look like they were dressed in pre-1900 clothes. Mayve they’re the survivors of the Black Rock. They certainly didn’t look like the type of natives we see on Pacific or Indian Ocean islands.
I found it one of the most confusing episodes ever. It just had my head spinning.
And what’s with Richard. He hasn’t aged in 30 or 40 years. What bothered me a bit was that the first scenes with Ben’s dad and mom and the couple that picked them up near Portland certainly didn’t look like a car or dress of something 30-40 years ago. I’ll have to look at that car more closely.
Ben is just one really bad dude. Not only is he creepy but he murdered his dad in cold blood and apparently planned it for 20 or more years.
Why did Dharma have all this poison gas? much less in cans that can be released to easily?
Why did all the Others just stand around in awe as Locke pummeled Mikhael? For a group that’s about to engage in a war they look pretty passive.
How old is Ben supposed to be? He appeared around 20-25 when he killed his father. Sometime later he kidnapped Alex. She’s 17 or so right. That makes Ben at least 40, probably closer to 50.
How did these hostiles/native inhabitants/Dharma killers make all of these contacts throughout the world. They seems to have a lot of friends/helpers/paid mercenaries in the real world? Why do they stay on the island. Clearly Richard used to bounce back and forth.
So many questions….
May 10th, 2007 at 12:50 am
Wow wow wow. Amazing. I kept saying to myself “I hope they don’t disappoint,” and they never did. Wow.
For the west coast people who don’t like reading spoilers before you see the episode: WHO IS MAKING YOU READ THIS BLOG? Just *wait* a few hours. I mean, it would be quite courteous for people to not write anything, but it’s just as easy to wait a few hours to read it! That’s like a recovering alcoholic going into a bar and getting pissed off because everyone else is drinking around them!
May 10th, 2007 at 1:04 am
The Locke thing is a bizarre twist. I have posted a theory here before that people on the island don’t die of (for lack of a better term) “natural causes” but can die of trauma. This episode further supports that theory: the Dharma folks die of chemical weapons. Mikhail did not die because the level of trauma was not high enough. Naomi is doing fine because she did not have a lethal wound, whereas maybe a deeper or “through and through” injury like the others would have killed her.
I think Ben shot Locke because he is clearly threatened (Locke has powers that Ben can only dream of… he heals faster, sees Jacob, and much like Ben killed his own father [or had him killed] to gain the acceptance of the Others) and hopes that this will do him in. I wonder if Locke’s healing ability on island is greater than that of anyone else. The Others clearly recognize the “gift” that Locke has and are in awe of it. This seems similar to the tale of Ben as a kid and Walt as well… though Walt maybe wouldn’t kill his own father and that’s why they let him go?
Fernando — I think that neither Richard nor any of the other Others ages. The paradox of the island presumably is that you never get sick and never get older but also can never reproduce, and if you do, you die. So how the Others appear to be their age (e.g. why does Tom look older than Richard), I dunno. But this explains the fascination with children and need to steal them to repopulate themselves, much like they wanted Ben. Ben probably also feels lonely and looks for more children to bestow upon them a better childhood (in his cult-like mindstate) than he had. And the Others were either in awe of Ben’s gifts, or wanted to use him as a mole (shades of Juliet and Ethan and Goodwin) to get their island back. Maybe over time he just insinuated himself as the most dominant/ruthless one… he’s clearly a psycho and they are clearly scared of his capabilities.
Love the Portland shoutout and the fact that Ben, too, has mommy and daddy issues.
Could Ben see Jacob and his mother because he can see he the dead? My wife wonders… I don’t think they’ll go all Sixth Sense on us.
I agree that the circle on the ground is gunpowder. Though ash is interesting. How flippin’ creeepy was the Jacob scene? Man, just when you think Ben is the biggest liar/fraud there is, he’s telling the truth!
GREAT to see Uncle Rico… I betcha if Roger Workman had a time machine, he could go back and win States.
I also finally have some vindication that the Others are more or less a rogue element of Dharma… but also a separate group. Maybe you can have your theories both ways. Interesting though that Dharma referred to the Others as hostiles as well… very Lacanian.
How did Kelvin wind up on the island as part of Dharma?
What happened to Annie? Any chance Ben spared her? Could she be the mother of Alex? Could Annie have been programmed to have a Croatian/French accent and deprived of conditioner for 16 years and turned into Rousseau?
Just mind-blowing. A lot of big reveals, but I guess you need them if you’re going to make fans wait 8 months for a new episode.
May 10th, 2007 at 1:11 am
Could it be that the Others stood back and watched Locke pummel Mikhail because he truly was the last of the Dharma Initiative? In that case, they would have no love lost for him; they would either be descendants of (or actual) Hostiles, or people that Ben “brought” to the island. (And it’s still pretty mysterious what he meant by “bringing” them there.)
And Dave’s right, West Coast folks. In fact it’s just common sense.
May 10th, 2007 at 2:04 am
Jim — interesting thought. I forgot that Mikhail said he was part of Dharma. I assumed it was because Locke actually killed his father, which is what the Others has asked Ben to do. Maybe by not being able to reproduce you alos have to disavow yourself of family ties. It’s like the Lost Boys, an analogy that has come up over and over again.
Also wondering WHY Dharma would keep sending people to the island after this massacre. And how the Hostiles can go back and forth. UNLESS, sticking with Lacanian notions and the psych experiment angle (like the famous Zimbardo experiment), Dharma actually assigned people to one of two groups: Dharma and the Hostiles. The Hostiles end of the experiment went awry and killed all the Dharma people, and now they keep sending new Dharma recuits (Mikhail, Kelvin… more military grade than civilian now, ironically) to salvage what they had. I can’t think of another reason why an organization that was systematically murdered would send new recruits out. It also might explain the dual appearance (grungy vs well kempt) of the Hostiles. Keep in mind that all the Dharma videos explicitly say that they should move from station to station and not discuss tasks with the others because they are part of an experiment.
So:
- Were Dharma and the Hostiles originally the same organization that split, and then had one group kill the other?
- Were the Hostiles on the island forever and Dharma “invaded” it like the Losties did?
- Are these just two “rival” organizations?
Gosh, just when they seem to answer questions, we actually get even more questions.
I also think the notion that the “peacable” Dharma folks need guns and an ultrasonic fence to keep other people (who they have named Hostiles, not necessarily because of anything that they have explicitly done but rather a perceived threat) out… and the irony of these peaceable open-minded people turning their “adversaries” murderous by not being peacable and open-minded. It does seem that the Hostiles needed a true sociopath like Ben to put their plan into action…
May 10th, 2007 at 2:06 am
Some things we do know and new questions….
Ben and Locke both killed their fathers on the island. Where’s Jack and Claire’s dead dad?
The “others” aren’t dharma but are pre-dharma. Why is dharma still dropping off supplies in the middle of the jungle?
Somehow the “others/hostiles” have an organization off island named Mittelos Bioscience. How did that happen?
Richard Alper doesn’t age.
Jacob exists and he’s a ghost or something.
Something on the island has the ability to appear as something or someone else: Ben’s Mom, Ecko’s brother, Kate’s horse. I think it’s that chick from Heroes.
Locke owns Mikhail
The hostiles like open graves. They spent all that time digging, you’d think they’d cover it.
The code to the gate is 54439!
I know there’s a lot more, but I guess I should work now.
If you’re bored, read this wiki, it’s cool
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Others_%28Lost%29
May 10th, 2007 at 2:20 am
Perhaps Jacob isn’t really there after all. It could be Ben has telekinesis, and he has a split personality. Killing your father could mess you up like that.
Jacob is trying to gain control of the dominate personality, Ben. Ben could see his dead mother because he is crazy. Although we do see, for a split second, another person, it could be just how Ben sees the other him. Locke didn’t see him, so we could have seen Jacob through Ben’s eyes.
Although I think the Others know there is no Jacob, they are are still afraid of Ben’s powers. Whenever Ben talks about Jacob, the others act like Ben is about to Wish Them Into the Cornfield, ala Bill Mumy in that Twlight Zone episode.
May 10th, 2007 at 2:20 am
I think the Others (including Jacob) are all pirates, trapped by a curse that won’t allow them to die unless the curse is broken. Which is why Jacob was asking for help. Of course this sounds suspiciously like Pirates of The Caribbean, but then maybe they’re helping promote the new release next week? (heh)
I don’t think Locke is dead-dead. I do see the resemblance between him and the screen capture.
I have to go back and watch what I dvr’d but I swear that painting was of a dog. Like, a little yorkie or something. But then, I was pretty creeped out at that moment, so maybe it was a long-haired woman with a small face and dark eyes.
I’m curious why The Others would throw all the bodies in an open pit and not cover them? Were they offerings to something that Jacob is protected from in his hut surrounded by ash/gunpowder/whatever?
The original Dharma people are gone - why is Dharma food still showing up? Does Dharma know the originals are gone?
Last item - The Others have the resources to run and fetch just about anything and bring it to the island (new washer/dryers, ultrasound machines, a fertility doctor) is it so far fetched to think that they couldn’t plant a fake Flight 815 with bodies at the bottom of the ocean?
May 10th, 2007 at 2:28 am
Dave:
I too was wondering if Anne and Danielle are one and the same. Ben seems to have had a special relationship with Anne and if Alex is Both Ben’s and Danielle’s daughter, then it is conceivable.
All:
I don’t see Locke being done, just as I suspect that we will see Walt again before it’s all over. I think there was too much put into these two being “special” to have them leave the show in death / going home.
May 10th, 2007 at 2:52 am
My mind was reeling after this episode. I always have an early day on Thursdays and struggle each week with the decision to stay up or watch it Thursday. LOST is the only show on TV that I ever watch live instead of Tivo.
The problem with it airing at 10 is I stay awake until well after midnight processing it all and going over different theories in my head.
Was Ben really born in Portland? Or, would it tie back into Juliet’s show title “Not In Portland”….?
I don’t think Ben is really Jacob because if he was - why would he have been threatened that Locke heard Jacob say “Help Me”. It truly seemed to freak Ben out when Locke stated what he heard Jacob say.
As far as the aging thing… how did Richard not age but Alex has clearly aged - if she is in fact Rousseu’s daughter.
This all still lends credence to the ongoing purgatory theory. It was all very “edge of your seat”, creepy - I can’t stop watching fun!!!
I have a feeling that it’s going to be excrutiating to wait until January 2008 for season 4 once we have the season finale.
May 10th, 2007 at 3:24 am
Could Jacob be smokey - that is why all the ash is around his domain?
I hope Locke comes back and kicks Bens A$$..
Annie could be Rousseau, maybe after the gassing she stayed with Patchy,
that is the reason for her on and off accent.
Great episode!
May 10th, 2007 at 3:47 am
I think Ben really was born outside of Portland, which might explain why Mittelos uses it as a cover story for their organization.
One of the big questions I think this episode asks is, have the Hostiles always been able to get on and off the island, or is this made possible by Ben? Maybe they have always been part of Dharma or even some competing project sponsored by Widmore…
I guess it’s also pretty clear that Naomi is not in cahoots with the Others.
Regarding the Purgatory theory, Leeann… it’s not that this doesn’t support the possibility of Purgatory. But if one of the theories is that once the people on the island make peace with their demons, they “die” on the island, well… Libby? Ana Lucia? Paolo and Nikki? It’s not exactly a universal theory. But maybe I’m missing a part of the purgatory explanation.
May 10th, 2007 at 3:48 am
Ryan, I hope that you write a delayed recap … you’re insights are always great, and I think that they’re needed for this episode!
May 10th, 2007 at 4:50 am
Wow….what an episode!!!
I must say, I like the “pirate theory” to some degree…..explains the black rock, richards outfit when he finds young ben in the jungle (slave anyone???), perhaps the “gun powder” around jacobs place, could even explain someones question about the cultural differences of this islands “natives”…..and the fact the black rock was a slave ship…were the pirates bringing more people for experiments/repopulation back than????…a bit of a stretch…but not for Lost….did the slaves revolt much like the hostiles???…..perhaps Jacob is the pirate captain “locked” in that cabin???….probably not….
perhaps the island/jacob have been around and trying to find “the one” all this time….bringing in new “subjects” throughout time…..throw in ole 4 foot the statue and perhaps this herding of people has been going on for hundreds of years…and DHARMA innocently set-up shop on the wrong island….OR…found out about the islands potential and went there to “steal” this power…..
I like the fact of ann being rouseau….do we know rouseau’s first name???? I will check myself….but when rouseau was first introduced and Sayid was her prisoner….I wonder if the producers might have included the “ben” carving in her posession????…at that point in time, we would never have noticed???
Also interested in finding out if the “hostiles” were able to leave the island prior to DHARMA and why is DHARMA still dropping supplies….unless Ben/Mikhail are together and still “representing” DHARMA to the outside world…..and DHARMA has no idea what happened….makes sense if Mikhail was the only one in constant contact with them….to keep him alive like others here have stated (him being a true DHARMA employee)….to report back as the comms. officer…..
Also, any ideas on how the hostiles released the gas???? Did they throw a bunch of canisters over the fence???….is it possible, that Ben has power (well, we know he does to some point) that in his mind, once he released it to his father, he was also simultaneously releasing it to the others???
Last comment/idea….perhaps the island has an age cap….so its inhabitants only grow to the age of 40 something…????….or sexual maturity….might explain why alex, ben, etc. have continued to age while the original hostiles (i.e. richard) did not…..same holds true for the “nice guy” that Ben pays attention to after the release of the gas when he enters the compound (Ben’s fathers contact about a new job)….Ben has aged by say 10 years….while he looked the same from first contact to his gassed death….?????
I agree with Frank….Ryan/Jenn…..comments???
peace….
May 10th, 2007 at 4:51 am
If Ben’s birthday is in late December, wouldn’t it have been a whole lot colder in the Portland area when he was born?
May 10th, 2007 at 4:52 am
sorry…
..correction….i stated 4 foot statue….i meant 4 toed statue in my previous post…just so not to confuse anyone….
May 10th, 2007 at 5:10 am
i got the impression the little girl was going away, which was why she gave ben the wooden toy of herself—didn’t she say when giving it to ben that this way the can always be close or something to that effect–kinda sounded like she was going someplace.
May 10th, 2007 at 5:14 am
hi, love catching up with you guys in US just before we get the same airing the following Mon….ie we will be able to see EP20 Man Behind The Curtain on Mon, 14th May…..cant wait now due to the high excitement it seems to have generated on this and other fan sites.
Fernando, in answer to your question about the comment from Hurley to Desmond..re “haggis”….it’s the traditional food of Scotland…..made from a sheep’s stomach lining and some other delightful delicacies! It actually sounds awful but tastes quite nice….well I suppose it’s an acquired taste. Perhaps Hurley doesn’t appreciate it’s flavour!
Thanks. Jennifer In Ireland (but half scottish, brother)
May 10th, 2007 at 5:21 am
oops….sorry for the quick posts…..
BUT….after reading Georges post, something hit me…..
Someone here previously noted the weather event (i forget what) that occurred in that time frame is very close at hand….if you think about it, why wouldn;t ben want to attack the beach earlier now that there is someone new there????….unless he knows that the weather event will cause the distraction he needs to successfully pull this extraction off…. even though the losties know the others are coming….i bet this storm throws everything off and the others do get the islands pregos….just seems weird…… if i were this diabolical leader of the others….why wouldn;t i want to get that woman ASAP so she can;t fill the losties in on anything happening in the real world or potentially contact them using the phone????….he didn;t seem to care at all really about this woman and such…..peace….(again
)
May 10th, 2007 at 5:33 am
The Jacob scene reminded me of the original Psycho. I don’t know what to believe — it’s so wacked-out, it could be anything. 3-years watching and studying this show and I know 10% of nothing. I still like it.
Jars in front of the window at Jacob’s place — remember Arntz had jars. But at this point, it’s difficult to make an Arntz/Jacob connection.
Whoever/whatever Jacob is — is being kept within the boundries of the gun powder/ash line. Looked fresh, too. I think snakes won’t cross such a line. O-o-o snakes/serpents! (Satan)
It’s difficult to make an Annie/Danielle connection. The two have absolutely no resemblance. Young Ben would have demanded Annie’s survival (being his only friend), but who knows; seems he’s a cold-blooded murderer. Keep your eyes peeled for the male wooden doll; that will be Annie. But she would have grown to hate Ben like everyone else.
The Dharma school marm was a babe.
The young Ben actor NAILED his part. Let’s see more of him. It was so great to see something of Ben’s past and those nicely starched and clean Dharma jumpsuits.
The original Hostiles look like survivors from the Black Rock (the flight 815 of that era). Maybe throughout history, a group of new castaways or arrivals is forced to fight the current natives for island dominance? Back and forth, forever. Injuries heal fast. If every woman dies that gives birth, the population never increases. Giving birth and certain types of wounds are the only fatalities.
What happened to Dharma people on duty in the hatches during the gas revolt? Ironic that Dharma was wiped out with its own brand of gas.
I believe the portal to the island exists in Portland. Originally controlled by Dharma, now by the phoney Mittelos. Widmore Corp knows something about the island and is chopping away.
The working title for this show (before they came up with LOST) could have been ‘A-Hole Dads”.
May 10th, 2007 at 5:38 am
George… in 1953 (around when Ben would have been born) there were ZERO days in December when the temperature as under 32 degrees.
http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/pqr/pdxclimate/PG19.html
Doesn’t prove anything except that I’m a dork.
Rousseau’s first name is Danielle.
May 10th, 2007 at 5:46 am
Did anyone catch the model and year of the red sports car that pulled over to help with Mr. and Mrs. Linus during their distress? That will tell you the year that Ben was born — maybe…
It looked like something from the 60s to me rather than the 50s. Dharma was born late 60s/early 70s. When Roger Linus arrived at the island, everything still looked new.
May 10th, 2007 at 5:48 am
What about the guy in the asylum with Hurley, the one with the numbers? Wasn’t he on the island serving in the army or something?
You know the problem I have with the shows writers is that this prolongation (till 2010) will leave so many past questions unanswered. The human mind can only retain so much!!! I want answers from back in seasons 1 and 2!
May 10th, 2007 at 5:58 am
David, you and me both. I hope the writers/producers are keeping tabs of all the unanswered questions and plan to explain much of it.
I think the asylum numbers guy (Dave?) was in the Navy and stationed on a nearby island. He and his mate listened to the numbers broadcast (by Danielle?) on their radio over and over. It drove Dave mad. His mate used the numbers for financial gain and ended up killing himself. I think this is correct.
May 10th, 2007 at 6:03 am
I bet that some of the current Others are actually old Dharma people who either switched sides or, at the very least, formed a sort of uneasy alliance(besides Ben). Mikhail seems like a good possibility. Maybe Radzinsky? We know that he was in the hatch with Kelvin, years after the purge.
May 10th, 2007 at 6:10 am
Fernando:
the ship offshore = 130 kilometers? or 130 k’s?
May 10th, 2007 at 6:36 am
The only answer I absolutly need to have right now is…..how many millions of people watching it air live all went whaaaaaaaaaat, or whooooooooaa, or just a deep breath when ben shot locke. seriously, lets say 10 million were watching live, you know half those fans all did it at the same time…….ish might have shifted the planet a little bit. HA!
Seriously though, Best episode ever…..all the ep did was bring up new questions and i couldnt be happier.
May 10th, 2007 at 6:53 am
Bill, the numbers guy was Leonard. Dave was Hurley’s imaginary friend/id.
Regarding kms vs clicks, I think “click” is a military measure. Not sure if it’s a unit of its own vs slang.
I based the year of Ben’s birth on Michale Emerson’s bio saying he was born in 1954. So presumably Ben was born around then (mid-50s). That would put his arrival on the island at around age 8-10, which would be mid-60s… maybe a little early for the whole hippie movement.
May 10th, 2007 at 6:59 am
Bill and David,
The asylum guy’s name was Leonard; the signal he heard from the island was the numbers, not Danielle’s distress message. But I am not sure he actually heard it; it could have been a friend of him. There was something about another guy Hurley goes to track down in Australia who used the numbers to win the lottery, and got nothing back but bad luck.
Damien,
The closed captions clearly show Roger saying “coming back from the plane”, not from the “Flame”, though it was an interesting idea of yours.
Peace.
May 10th, 2007 at 7:01 am
Hmmm. The current “others” are the former hostiles. Was a younger Tom not in the background of one of the official Dharma videos, maybe in a labcoat?
Are there still a group of hostiles? There was a very prominent clip (last season I think) of a group thought to be “others” wearing clothing very similar to what Richard was wearing when he talked to young Ben. The Teddy Bear Scene. All we saw was their feet was they walked past.
May 10th, 2007 at 7:14 am
Could grey-ash-powder been a barrier to keep the “Spiirt of Jacob” “In”. Like sanctified Church Ash,Ground priest bones or something mumbojumbo, exorcist stuff….cause ole’ “Jacob is either a Ghost or a simple special effect…
…..like in the “Wizard of OZ’ smoke and mirrors.
Locke is not dead…but it was creepy lying in the ,dead pit.
“jacob is just another special effect, yup.
Unless Kate is part of a double blind con….She has degenerated into a flake
May 10th, 2007 at 7:24 am
Yeah, the teddy bear scene was last season. Eko and Jin saw them while looking for Michael.
I’m pretty convinced that Jacob is Locke.
Jacob:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c205/spilledmilkinc/jacob.jpg
Locke:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c205/spilledmilkinc/locke.jpg
Crappy photoshop edit of Locke:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c205/spilledmilkinc/lockejacob.jpg
It is very exciting to me. I love the time loop idea. I think there is a WHOLE lot of stuff that Ben doesn’t know about. My friends all thought the Jacob scene was ridiculous, but I think it was awesome. And I cheered when he beat the hell out of Patchy. I like Patchy, but he is one of those characters that you laugh at when he gets beat up, even if you don’t want him to go away.
Locke is officially awesome again. Of course he’s not going away. I have a feeling that the two remaining episodes are going to be amazing. I also have a feeling Charlie’s going to die next week. I’m not too upset.
This was my favorite episode of the season, seriously. I need to watch it again.
May 10th, 2007 at 7:32 am
Great episode! I really really hope Locke isn’t dead. Ben needs a swift kick in the nuts. That’d learn him.
Klicks = Kilometres. As Wikipedia says: “Slang terms for kilometre include “klick” (sometimes spelled “click” or “klik”)
Haggis is lovely!
R.
May 10th, 2007 at 7:38 am
Regarding Ben’s birthplace outside of Portland, assuming it was Portland, Oregon and not some southern Portland of which I know not: I grew up 60 miles south of Portland, Oregon and in December there are no leaves on the trees and everything is tending towared bare and brown. The woods they were hiking in looked like they were in the full growth of summer, plus no one would be driving around in a convertable with the top down. It would be very cold and probably rainy. Also the shortest days of the year are in late December so it would be getting dark very early. So they either made a terrible goof OR Ben is lying about his birthday too, OR time is so messed up that maybe it isn’t even really December on the Island. If they lost time when the hatch imploded WHO KNOWS what day, month or year it really is.
Regarding Ben’s age. Our current Ben looks to be around 50 or so (I think the actor is in his early 50’s). That would put his birth year in the early to mid 1950’s. The child Ben looked to be about 12 or 13 years old when he arrived on the Island. That would make the year about 1964 to maybe 1969. But all we have seen indicates that Dharma came into existence in the late 1970’s or early 80’s. Have I missed something or is this a big time discrepancy? But if Ben was 12 years old in 1980, that would make his birth year 1968, and I like Michael Emerson a lot, but there is no way that our grown up Ben is only 38 to 40 years old….is there?
May 10th, 2007 at 8:04 am
I didn’t know just how badly I wanted to see a Ben flashback until this episode. I thought it was all really well done for the most part and I loved seeing Uncle Rico as Ben’s good for nothing Dad. I guess Uncle Rico is good at ruining lives.
Ben’s background certainly explains a lot. No Mom, alcoholic good for nothing Dad and an island sized chip on his shoulder. As evil as I may think Ben is, he has always maintained a sort of humanity about him, maybe this is due to good acting, but this episode drove home the fact that underneath it all Ben is just a big lonely kid that wants his Mommy.
Did Ben create an imaginary friend? This was my first thought. I mean he was a mixed up kid growing up on a weird Island, having a friend that only he can see makes sense. Of course, then Locke hears “Help Me” and everything changes.
I like the Jacob is Locke theory, but I kind of also like the idea that Locke has a long lost brother? Locke really doesn’t know much about his past or his family and why was Ben so insistent that Locke kill his father? Maybe this explains why Ben has wanted to get Locke so badly. Certainly other people have been miraculously healed on the island (Rose for one). So… Evil twin….Anyone?
As always I am usually more interested in what is going on at the beach. I have always maintained that Juliet is good, I hope I am right, either way it will be interesting to see how the Losties deal with her situation.
Just some little thoughts and questions:
-Where is Annie? Please tell me Ben didn’t gas the one girl who was nice to him.
-How creepy was that mass grave…and how big is this flippin Island that the Losties didn’t find that sooner?
-I’m not buying the Dharma Initiative as nicey hippy kids seeking harmony. Nuh-uh. Um, teachers with guns? Killer death ray fence?
-I loved the connection with the van full of beer and a corpse that Hurley and Charlie took joyriding and Ben’s begining as an evil-doer. Shangri-La.
-Clearly the hostiles aren’t “natives” so why are they referred to as such?
-Don’t know if it was just bad production ideas or “Lost Time”, but Richard has been the same age for like 30 years and Ben was 12 and then suddenly middle aged for ever.
Can’t wait for next week!
May 10th, 2007 at 8:27 am
Please tell me who is Uncle Rico. I don’t have cable and only get six channels.
May 10th, 2007 at 8:32 am
Awesome episode! In the first scene before discussing the tape recorder Ben tells Richard it is his birthday and says “You remember birthdays don’t you Richard?” This guy is ageless. I like the previous post about an age cap or something along those lines.
May 10th, 2007 at 8:40 am
I hope you guys aren’t forgetting that Locke didn’t kill his father. Sawyer did it for him. Ben killed his own father in the van. Though the screencaptions do look like Locke….I don’t know. Ben can maybe see Jacob because he killed…Locke did not kill. Locke also maybe can be smokey/jacob. Don’t forget Locke hung around walt a lot and showed him how to hunt and stuff..but then the polar bear showed up one episode. The horse with kate, dave with hurley and I forget what else. Locke is always around everywhere. So it could be locke. The “help me” I am not sure. Locke does heal a lot faster. I just don’t know. I also remembered that with locke didn’t he see the monster and changed somehow a bit after seeing it? So maybe he is not smokey…
And yeah..Naomi healed really fast.
I did like the portland connection.
I am just confused. Awesome episode. And yeah…Sawyer (james) killed Lockes Father!
(sorry if that was a bit jumbled. typing as i was thinking)
May 10th, 2007 at 8:41 am
oh and patchy didn’t die either apparently. Has locke really killed anyone?
May 10th, 2007 at 8:44 am
Uncle Rico is a reference to the actor who played Ben’s dad last night … he also plays “Uncle Rico” in the movie “napoleon dynamite”. I was laughing when I realized it was him and despite the intense episode I found myself thinking “i bet i can throw this football over them there mountains”. Uncle Rico, whether you like or hate the movie, is a classic character.
Great … GREAT episode last night.
May 10th, 2007 at 8:48 am
Thanks, George. Have only seen Napoleon Dynamite once, but it is one of my daughter’s favorites.
May 10th, 2007 at 9:02 am
This episode was indeed a game changer, we had many answers but yet another mystery probably one of the biggest. Was Jacob a show done by Ben? But if was, why would he do such a thing right before atempting to kill Locke? I don’t think so, that what the hell was it??? I’m starting to think that maby some Aliens are involved…something like in a comic book with superman, green lantern and and powerfull alien burried within his space ship in the ground for tousends of years.Naah.The episode rocked but left me absolutly clueless. One thing is sure, Ben is a mad and a really bad man.
May 10th, 2007 at 9:03 am
I am wondering if all of that “gravel” type stuff outside of Jacob’s house is what he uses when he goes out as the monster (Prey-like)?? Does anyone think Jacob could be the monster?
Also, I think Jacob spoke to Locke and did say “Help me.” I think Ben didn’t hear it and that is why he was so threatened. Ben looked truly surprised at what Jacob had said to Locke.
May 10th, 2007 at 9:05 am
I don’t read every site about lost….but is ben named after Linus Carl Pauling who was born in Portland Oregon? He almost discovered the double helix. He was an american Quantum chemist and biochemist….Anyway…I was just wondering. Oh just read about it on wikipedia. I am not a science person
:)
May 10th, 2007 at 9:12 am
Perhaps the episode in Jacob’s house was Ben testing Locke’s reaction or to see if he really did “kill” someone. Maybe killers actually see Jacob and non-killers do not. Whatever reaction Ben was looking for, evidently Locke did not produce it since Ben supposedly killed him in the end. Locke did not pass Ben’s or perhaps Jacob’s test.
May 10th, 2007 at 9:20 am
One thing I noticed when they did a closeup on the mass grave - the skull they focused on clearly had a bullet hole in the forehead, above the eye. Not a gas death, I’d have to say.
I saw the painting in Jacob’s place as a dog.
I too was confused by the lamp being broken and then apparently not.
The jars in Jacob’s place looked like honey to me.
Another thing I noticed an episode or so back was a book on Ben’s shelf in the tent I think. The authors names were visible - I looked it up and it was a book on a smallpox epidemic.
Not sure about Ben’s age. The scene where he killed his father they had a bad wig on him to make him look younger, but they didn’t seem to worry about working on his crow’s feet, which look like that of a 35-40 year old at best. Maybe they don’t count on a lot of HD viewers.
The hostiles were all barefoot.
Locke is by far the most interesting character to me. He seems to oscillate between pure belief and pure skepticism. But it’s hard for me to picture him in any way as holy, as some do. Last episode he lied, lied, lied, and lied some more to manipulate Sawyer into murder.
I still wonder how the Black Rock got on land in the middle of the island.
And what’s up with the coming 16 episode seasons? Seems a bit short - “24″ seems to manage, um, 24 episodes pretty well in one stretch without repeats.
May 10th, 2007 at 9:21 am
The writers seem to be giving us all kinds of mythologies to get “lost” in — i.e., purgatory; the Freudian symbolism of “killing the father;” literary references like Lord of the Flies, etc. Maybe that’s why it’s so hard to figure out–they’ve purposely given us many potential lines to follow, and maybe they’re connected in a grand theory/outcome and maybe not. My guess is Damon and Carlton will incorporate some of those elements but give us their own twist too.
One intriguing line is the “Wizard of Oz” theory: Could Kate be Dorothy (no home– she blew it up!); Sawyer the Tin Man or Scarecrow, as you prefer (seeking a heart, or brain); Jack either the TM or S; and Locke the Cowardly Lion, at present finding his true strength (though he showed his wimpy stripes when he had someone else kill his father). Is Jacob the Wizard– and if so, who and what is he? Why and how would Locke be the Wizard? Or is Ben the Wizard? After all, he was Henry Gale for a good long time there– and Henry Gale was of course the Wizard in the actual movie. Just a thought.
This episode also has very scary implications for our darling Losties. If the Hostiles used biological warfare on the Dharma folks and committed genocide, what’s stopping them from plotting the same for our group?
And what about the Hanso Foundation? Is that who the Hostiles are? I never heard or read that Hanso is the same as Dharma; has anyone else? Also, if you followed the Hanso Foundation Web site over the summer, it made clear there was a war between two factions, Alvar Hanso (the supposed good guy), and people who usurped his platform somehow. Maybe Hanso is Dharma, and the Usurpers are the Hostiles? Will we ever see Alvar, I wonder? And doesn’t Richard look like Thomas Mittelverk, for those who followed the Web site?
I agree with folks who think Locke will stay alive, though I’m concerned about the fact that Terry O’Quinn is selling his house in Hawaii. For one thing, Ben didn’t shoot Locke in his one remaining kidney, but lower down, it looks like!
Is this the best TV show ever, or what?
May 10th, 2007 at 9:38 am
Speaking of the Hanso Foundation, it is about time for some heavy-duty Hanso info.
What about Alvar Hanso? Rachel Blake? Thomas Mittlewerk? The Global Welfare Consortium?
Oh, and I hope we at least get some hints about the Four-Toed Foot. Unless that doesn’t get much airplay until season 6, The FInal Season. (I was glad to hear they have mapped the end. That helps keep me hooked in.)
Didn’t Ageless von Hostile’s clothing (when he met rabbit-boy Ben) look like pirate clothes?
May 10th, 2007 at 9:49 am
Also…..rabbits according to Penguins Dictionary of Symbol mean “like the moon…rabbits are linked to that oldest of deities, the Earth Mother (mother earth??that was on chalkboard?) to the symbolism of water….renewal of life in all it’s shapes.” At the end of the synopis of the symbolism of a rabbit or hare….it says “All were the companions of Hecate, protector of children, but haunting crossroads and inventor of witchcraft”.
We “saw” jacob at night…
Maybe that was why jacob did not like the flashlight. He was some being who did not like light. Hecate’s powers are stronger at night…maybe like jacobs.
http://www.endicott-studio.com/rdrm/rrRabbits.html
May 10th, 2007 at 9:53 am
Locke seems to know instictively that he can’t kill anyone or he will lose whatever connection he has with the Island. Maybe it’s the Island itself that is at war with the “hostiles”. It is personafied in Jacob who Ben has confined to that one area. The Island is asking Locke for help. This enrages Ben.
May 10th, 2007 at 9:54 am
Also…..rabbits according to Penguins Dictionary of Symbol mean “like the moon…rabbits are linked to that oldest of deities, the Earth Mother (mother earth??that was on chalkboard?) to the symbolism of water….renewal of life in all it’s shapes.” At the end of the synopis of the symbolism of a rabbit or hare….it says “All were the companions of Hecate, protector of children, but haunting crossroads and inventor of witchcraft”.
We “saw” jacob at night…
Maybe that was why jacob did not like the flashlight. He was some being who did not like light. Hecate’s powers are stronger at night…maybe like jacobs.
(look up rabbit/hare in symbolism dictionary) It’s got to be important if ben let his rabbit go and the woman in the painting is holding what looks like a rabbit)
May 10th, 2007 at 9:55 am
oops sorry for the double posts
May 10th, 2007 at 9:57 am
Nice job on the Hacate/rabbit link, Nadia!
May 10th, 2007 at 10:08 am
And also Nameste
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namaste
May 10th, 2007 at 10:21 am
Jacob has god-like powers but needs a human to help him … Jacob is clearly unhappy with Ben being the human who helps HIM–that’s why he (Jacob) is asking Locke to “Help [him].” Jacob’s request for Locke’s help will require Jacob to heal his gunshot wound–why not? … wasn’t Jacob able to cure Juliette’s sister’s cancer? … healing a gunshot wound would seem like an easy job for Jacob. Oh yes, Ben, (the king of people with daddy issues) sees (or saw) himself as being stronger than Locke, since Ben had the gonads to kill his own father.
P.S. could the smoke monster actually be Jacob?
May 10th, 2007 at 10:24 am
Since Jacob seems to be physically restrained where he is, maybe the Smoke Monster is how he gets around the Island-his emissary or spiritual self. We already know that Smokie cannot detach from the Island physically.
May 10th, 2007 at 10:51 am
At lunch, had to watch the episode again. Just as good.
Locke took credit for killing Cooper when he brought him to camp.
Roger (Work Man) demands ANOTHER $30,000 in a rage because of the job danger. $30,000 was pretty good money in the early 70s. $60k plus all the beer you could drink would be serious compensation.
The red sports car driven by Horace Goodsby 32 miles from Portland was a Karmann Ghia — first convertible was 1957-58. Max age for Ben is 49-50.
The photos from SpilledMilkInc. are compelling. The flash of Jacob looks A LOT like our boy, Locke.
Remember, Ben warned Locke about the flashlight — turn that off, Jacob doesn’t like technology — he’s like you. Think Locke has a mystic relative or brotha?
technology = flashlight? Why didn’t the kerosene from the lantern start a fire?
May 10th, 2007 at 11:10 am
Connie from Alaska Says:
“…But if Ben was 12 years old in 1980, that would make his birth year 1968, and I like Michael Emerson a lot, but there is no way that our grown up Ben is only 38 to 40 years old….is there?”
I would have guessed around 40 before i found out Michael Emerson’s real age. Kinda surprised he is that old, actually.
May 10th, 2007 at 12:08 pm
Heather, Uncle Rico is sort of known for making people look like flippin’ idiots and ruining their lives.
Connie — the Dharma being from the 1980s or 1970s I think refers to the films in the hatches bearing a date stamp saying so. Maybe Dharma has contineud to operate and send people to the island (which would explain food drops) despite all its members of the island being killed.
Or, maybe the Hostiles are also a faction of Dharma in a big us vs them experiment. So much of the films refer to other groups and not discussing the tasks they have been enlisted to perform. I know I’ve said this before but I am not at all convinced that the Hostiles are not either a part of (or rogue offshoot from) Dharma.
May 10th, 2007 at 12:10 pm
Ben’s rabbit = “down the rabbit hole,” a la Alice in Wonderland?
Continuing the Wizard of Oz theme, is Ben the Wicked Witch of the West, who has the rest of the Others under his spell?
May 10th, 2007 at 12:12 pm
Connie - I don’t think Ben’s age is an issue in the story… but who knows? The car they used in the shot may have been “close” to the era they were looking for. There may not be a whole lot of choice for period cars in Hawaii.
Michael Emerson’s real age kinda’ surprised me, too. Unless he LIED on his actor’s bio.
May 10th, 2007 at 12:19 pm
What a fantastic episode, the visit to Jacob was genuinely scary.
Just one thing that no one’s mentioned yet - the opening flashback was a definite nod to the film The Village. It looked like they were Other’s on the Island and suddenly they run out onto the road and nearly get hit by a truck - very similar to the Village.
Ryan - I hope you will be writing your opinion on this episode - it would be a helluva episode to miss out!
May 10th, 2007 at 12:42 pm
When Olivia, the teacher, did the volcano experiment and the island starts to shake….there is a scene that shows images on top of the chalkboard of the intercom in the classroom two dharma symbol images and on the left are all posters (the blue sheets) of greek mathematical philosophers and thinkers..such as pythagoras (like the ones shown…..). I had that booklet of posters. Other thinkers included Newton gravity, ben Franklin electricity….etc…
Pythagoreans…..according to wiki
The organization was in some ways a school, in some ways a brotherhood, and in some ways a monastery. It was based upon Pythagoras’ religious teachings and was very secretive. At first, the school was highly concerned with the morality of society. Members were required to live ethically, love one another, share political beliefs, practice pacifism and vegetarianism, and devote themselves to the mathematics of nature
May 10th, 2007 at 1:22 pm
Ok….get this….I found my original pictures of those posters that i spoke of……it’s called History of Mathematics. 18 Posters by James Greenhaw and illustrated by Lafe Locke (hmmmmm…locke….) J. Weston Walch, Publisher. June 1979.
May 10th, 2007 at 1:53 pm
Re-watched the epi this afternoon, and just noticed that the girl that was with “Goodspeed” (the couple, who came across Roger, newborn Ben, and mother), was also the teacher in the class when the “Hostiles” attack, was that lesson on Volcano’s significant in any way? One other thought I had, the Jacob image that was visible for less than a split second, could there also be some kind of Desmond connection? Just love Lost and I’m so glad that I found this site, I am glad there are other people out there who are as obsessed as I am!
May 10th, 2007 at 2:58 pm
I read most of the posts and I don’t think I saw this theory re-visited… we know Dharma was doing experiments and many times people have thought they were working specifically with those with psychic abilities (which was why they wanted Walt). Some time ago I read a loose theory that “Jacob” was one of the original psychics Dharma was using in their experiments, but he was too powerful and somehow things went amuck…ending in him being disembodied - or maybe traveling around like the “smoke monster.” This might explain his “help me” plea, as he is stuck in a form (or as NO form) he doesn’t want to be.
Some even go farther and say that this dis-embodied Jacob is destined to choose Claire’s baby, Aaron, as his new physical form - based on the psychic predictions Claire was given while she was pregnant. I dunno…sounds as good as other theories I’ve heard, but in the end, they are still just theories!
May 10th, 2007 at 3:01 pm
Jacob is definitely a pirate or something of the sort. He is dressed in colonial clothes and seems to be wearing a white powder wig.
May 10th, 2007 at 4:00 pm
Just a couple quick observations.
Another Lost site showed caps of the Jacob shack and I thought I saw a floating dark spot in the chair right before Jacob appeared and it seemeed to be confirmed by the screen cap. Is Jacob tied in with Smoky?
I loved seeing Uncle Rico in the episode. I couldn’t stop thinking about him flinging that steak though lol.
I was glad to see a tie-in that made the infamous throw away episode about the micro bus have more relevance. Little did we know when Sawyer and Hurley were rummaging through it we were really seeing the dead body of Ben’s murdered father.
Could Jacob actually be Desmond, not Locke? Desmond seems to be the one caught in the time loop, not Locke.
Another great episode in what is turning out to be another strong season of Lost.
May 10th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
Didn’t see any children dead in the compound after the “purge”. Nor any child-sized skeletons in the pit. Did the Others/Hostiles spare the Dharma kids for some reason?
May 10th, 2007 at 5:55 pm
In response to a previous post about yelling at the tele.
I was screaming at the TV last night when Locke beat the living daylights out of Mikhail. I also let out a huge gasp when Locke was shot by Ben.
I think Locke will be back….. Remember he was bitten on the hand by his dad. It healed instantly.
Ben is a very creepy dude who doesn’t show any remorse. His seems like a natural born killer.
Overall, this show is driving my wife and I crazy. We haven’t been so attached to one tv show since the the Xfiles left the airwaves.
May 10th, 2007 at 5:57 pm
Locke won me back when he whipped Patchy’s ass! Now he’s dead. Maybe.
In no way at this point do I think little Annie ( island orphan? ) is Danielle. Danielle wanted to kill Ben when she had caught him in her trap. I think if she wanted to do that b/c of the past she would have just done it and not brought him to the camp to become Benry.
I think Locke has showed other people “Jacob” before. People who he said Jacob had summoned through him. ( People making a power-play would be my guess ) I think that would account for any gunshot wounds on the pit skeletons. I’m sure most were the gas victims, but since Alex so boldy warned Locke and gave him a gun it seems to me to say : “When Ben takes someone to Jacob, or the man behind the curtain ( spirit / pirate / smokey / Noman Bate’s mother…whatever it turns out to be ) we never hear from them again”.
May 10th, 2007 at 5:59 pm
Oops - Ben has showed….my head nuckinhurts
May 10th, 2007 at 9:01 pm
I bet its magnus hanso and the original others born on the island are the desendents of the black rock, it would explain their shabby clothing and per a previous comment jacob wearing a white powder wig in colonial clothes and also why the black smoke is mainly based in the dark territory where the black rock is.
May 11th, 2007 at 2:23 am
One of the most brilliant aspects of this show is their attention to detail when coming up with names. I tried to figure out why they chose Roger and Emily. Could Roger allude to the “Jolly Roger?” It makes sense with the skeleton. Emily could be another reference to the Wizard of Oz. (Auntie Em! Uncle Henry Gale!) I’m sure for the messed up Ben, the “purge” would have felt like the tornado that brought him to another world. I still can’t figure out how he is so important to his people. Is it just his ruthlessness and manipulation that has given him his power, or is there something we haven’t discovered yet? Any theories?
May 11th, 2007 at 3:17 am
Didn’t Ben tell Richard he could see the dead? Maybe they figured he had some special power. Maybe they just saw that he was an outsider skeptical of Dharma. They presumably over years systematically groomed him to massacre his people. Maybe they realized after the fact that they created a monster. Maybe they’re profoundly indebted to him.
Maybe they’re just scared that he’ll do to them what he did to Dharma is they F with him. But Locke isn’t scared of Ben… that’s why they are in awe of Locke.
(Juliet isn’t scared of him either, but she defers to him. She respects him. He has — real or imaginary — power over her sister, and she’s afraid to be skeptical of his claims lest she shever get back to her sister. Locke is so despondent, with nothing in his life off the island, and with so much power on, that he has no interest in ever leaving.)
May 11th, 2007 at 3:43 am
Tom - I thought about the “purge” and the fact there were no bodies of children seen on the barracks grounds or in the pit. By this time, maybe there were no children.
Remember, Ben was told to be patient for the “right time”. A time, I suspect, when Dharma had entered a less optimistic period.
May 11th, 2007 at 4:52 am
I don’t know if this has been mentioned yet here, but did anyone else notice Cindy (flight attendant) as part of the Dharma greeting crew when Ben and Roger first arrived at the island? Her hair was longer, but it was definitely her. Ben also made a comment to Locke about him [Ben]being “one of the few” Dharma people that remained with the Others. So, it looks like Cindy is also one of the original Dharma people.
If so, then as she was a flight attendant on 815, they must have known that the flight was going to crash on the island. And also explains how she was taken so quietly without Ana Lucia et al noticing.
May 11th, 2007 at 5:01 am
After finally seeing Ben’s flashback episode I get the feeling that the reason Ben tells people that he has “lived his whole life on this island” or he was “born on this island” and he is “one of the last ones that were” is because he didn’t really start living his life until the purge of the dharma initiative. Ben rarely talked to anyone and on the day of the purge Roger made the sarcastic comment of him usually being “Chatty Kathy in the morning”. I think Ben considers the day of the purge to be the first day of his life. And who’s to say Ben was telling the truth when he told his father that it was his birthday on the day of the purge? Roger never remembered his birthday anyway and Ben could consider the day of the purge his new birthday.
Ryan & Jenn… i’m missing your insights!!!
May 11th, 2007 at 5:59 am
Lori — I too saw what appeared to be Cindy at the beginning. My wife is fairly sure it wasn’t her.
I think the following completely contradictory things:
1) It could have been that Cindy was an original Other, as she doesn’t appear to have aged appreciably since the 1960s, and may have infiltrated Dharma.
2) This would mean that maybe the Others brought Cindy out to gather people to flight 815 and then to the island.
3) BUT the Others apparently didn’t expect 815. It was brought down by Desmond’s failing to press the button in time. And they didn’t know who would be on it, since Ben had Ethan and Goodwin scrounging for information. We already know that they didn’t expect 815 to land on the island.
Maybe the actress just looks like Cindy and isn’t her. (Hard to believe that the producers would “accidentally put the actress playing Cindy in another scene if she’s not MEANT to be Cindy.)
Cindy seems to not have nearly as large of a role in the politics of the Others as Richard… she was staring at Sawyer and Kate in the cages. I’m not sure how to explain this all but I don’t think it proves that the Others brought 815 down.
MB — Very interesting thoughts on the birthday. Maybe the Others had Ben do this on his birthday as a renaissance/phoenix rising from the ashes because of the poetry of it. Also it is reminiscent of many religious ceremonies (communion/bar mitzvah) where you become a man/woman on your birthday in the eyes of god. I think Ben metaphorically considers having spent his whole life on the island and metaphorically the day of the massacre to be the first day of the rest of his life… but he clearly admits to not being born there, and everyone but the Losties knows it.
Nuckinfuts — GREAT call on the pit and Alex giving Locke the gun.
May 11th, 2007 at 7:28 am
I don’t know how a man that loved his wife could ever forget the day she died. I don’t think Ben was lying about his birthday, his father would definitely know in my opinion.
ALSO, something that has not been addressed (I think, I’m pretty sure I read all the posts), the whispers in the jungle after Benry passed through the fence. The whispers were always one of my favorite mysteries, and after I read some of the translations online, I was half-thinking that they were some sort of Dharma thing. But Dharma doesn’t seem to have anything to do with the monster or the whispers. I WANT TO KNOW WHAT THOSE DAMN WHISPERS ARE ABOUT.
And to answer a question I saw in one of the posts, I think the others would not hold Locke back from attacking Patchy because they know he used to be in a wheelchair. I mean, really, if I saw a guy I knew healed like crazy beating up some other guy, I would seriously not think about trying to stop him. Either that or no one likes Patchy. That is a good theory.
May 11th, 2007 at 7:53 am
Some observations and comments..
Fuber says “Something on the island has the ability to appear as something or someone else: Ben’s Mom, Ecko’s brother, Kate’s horse. I think it’s that chick from Heroes.”
- funniest line I’ve read here!
If Ben came to the island in the Dharma submarine, and the Dharma people have been killed, who knows how to operate the submarine in order to bring new people to the island?
How did the hostiles get into the compound when Ben was in school? Wasn’t the sonic fence supposed to keep them out?
Kate didn’t seem to blink when she heard that Julliet was supposed to get a sample from “Austin.” Odd? Does Kate suspect she might be pregnant?
80 Nautical Miles = 148.16 Kilometers = 92 Land Miles
130 Kilometers = 80 Land Miles = 70 Nautical Miles
Did the writers goof? Makail said the ship was 130 Clicks away and Naomi said the ship was 80 Nautical miles away.. do we have a bend in the time/space continuum here? (Maybe I remember the numbers wrong)
“Help Me” possibilities..
If Jacob is also Locke, he might be asking the alternate Locke to “Help Me”
HeyBrah says .. Jacob is clearly unhappy with Ben being the human who helps HIM–that’s why he (Jacob) is asking Locke to “Help [him].”
Bill says.. Ben warned Locke about the flashlight — turn that off, Jacob doesn’t like technology — he’s like you.”
- Maybe he is you
Judi In On,Canada Says..”just noticed that the girl that was with “Goodspeed” (the couple, who came across Roger, newborn Ben, and mother), was also the teacher in the class when the “Hostiles” attack”
- Maybe stopping to help Ben’s mom wasn’t an accident by The Others.
Jenn Says… “I read a loose theory that “Jacob” was one of the original psychics Dharma was using in their experiments, but he was too powerful and somehow things went amuck…ending in him being disembodied - or maybe traveling around like the “smoke monster.”
- I heard that theory too, and it could also have something to do with this person mentally pushing the “numbers” out into the real world during a mental telepathy experiement
Tom says.. “Didn’t see any children dead in the compound after the “purge” ”
- Good catch.. children are sacred to The Others
Nuckinfuts Says.. When Ben takes someone to Jacob, or the man behind the curtain ( spirit / pirate / smokey / Noman Bate’s mother…whatever ) it turns we never hear from them again”.
- The best reason to give Locke the pistol.
Ben was told to be patient for the “right time”…
- maybe the right Time-Loop?
Lost Writers.. please, please, please don’t kill Locke.. he’s finally become the Man!
Lost might be the best TV show this decade!
May 11th, 2007 at 8:58 am
Ryan and jen are you going to compose a write up or summary?
May 11th, 2007 at 10:04 am
“well, looks like we have some catching up to do” great great line on jacks part. the Others seem to have their group put together based on “kill your dad, join us !!! type initiation eh???” Possible Spoiler Warning:::::::
I just dont think they would kill off Locke… yet…. I mean Mr. Cuse and Mr. Lindeloff spoke about the Finale being a Locke versus Jack showdown no??? (from SpoilerFix)…
May 11th, 2007 at 10:23 am
Locke is 100% guaranteed not dead. Seriously.
Another thing I just thought of. I thought it during the episode, then I got distracted by all the crazy stuff happening. Ben seems all scared of Jacob before they go to meet him, then when they get there, he just waltzes in and even talks angrily and aggressively. And then, instead of cowaring, as one may do when a very powerful man throws a telekinetic temper tantrum, he runs up to him and tries to grab him, only to be shoved back.
I just found it strange that he would talk to someone he supposedly respects and fears like that.
May 11th, 2007 at 10:38 am
SpilledMilkInc-I think that everything Ben does is for “show” or to control the situation. Would we even know if he was being real and genuine? I think there is a moment of truth coming for Ben when he will have no more secrets, no more lies, no allies and no power. Then we will see his true nature and I am expecting that moment to be anguishing (for Ben, that is).
May 11th, 2007 at 11:54 am
Also I think ben shot locke in the kidney area.
May 11th, 2007 at 12:17 pm
The Goodspeeds were DEFINITELY part of Dharma. Both Homer or Hiram or whatever his name was and his wife. The wife was the teacher and the husband welcomed them. This was not at all subtle.
As to whether this was coincidence… I suspect so. Definitely shades of The Village as noted above. (The whole series is not unlike The Village actually, what with costumes and unknown creatures and maintaining fear of the unknown.) But Ben was born two months early. The Goodspeeds happened upon Ben and Uncle Rico and Dead Mom. Eight-ish years later with Rico Roger down on his luck he gets a break from friendly old Mr Goodspeed (incidentally, NOT an Other and killed in a more or less mass murder by Ben and the Others). That would have to be some really kick-ass planning. Maybe even more complicated than the Ben waiting 20 years or so to massacre the Dhamra folks.
On the one hand, let’s not mistake fate for coincidence.
At the same time, let’s not mistake coincidence for fate.
May 11th, 2007 at 12:50 pm
Those classroom posters above the chalkboard were the following.
Why I had this set of posters as a kid I have no idea…I did not like math very well…
1. The Beginning of Mathematics: pre counting
2. The Beginning of Mathematics: Counting
3. The Beginning of Arithmetic: Barter and trade
4. The Beginning of Arithmetic Astronomy
7. The Strange Cult of Pythagoras
8. The invention of Zero
9. The Decimal System
11. The Invention of Trigonometry
17. Non Euclidean Geometries
18. Game Theory.
The textbook they are using is Physical Science
Not all of the 18 posters are shown and I still think it’s funny that the illustrator has Locke in the name…
May 11th, 2007 at 1:37 pm
I just rewatch the episode and I stop to the moment we see Jacob..(after ben said”It enough you had your fun”) and we see long hair.. finish at the shoulder… like Roger’s hair when he was younger.. but I dont think its Roger… and I dont remerber seeing Locke with long hair… and just a moment after we have a big eye… is it Jacob’s eye ??
I like the age cap idea but why Roger go over 60 years old and not Richard ?
May 11th, 2007 at 2:39 pm
It would be fantastic if Ben destroyed Locke’s remaining kidney only to find that the Island had “replaced” the one his father stole thus sparing his life.
May 11th, 2007 at 4:57 pm
For what it’s worth, and they’re generally right on target, Lost Spoilers has revealed the names and photos of the three males that will die by the end of the season. There are two females whose names they will not yet release. For anyone interested check:
http://spoilerslost.blogspot.com/
May 11th, 2007 at 7:24 pm
I just watched TMBTC online. Several things stand out:
–Jacob definitely has hair…it’s not a hood or something else
–there is a close up of an eyeball right before John loses it and bolts from the room. Locke’s eyes are blue, but I am pretty sure the closeup eyeball was brown.
–the event that caused the Dharma group’s death is referred to as a “purge”…a very organic term used mostly to describe a biological function or something that happens to a living body.
–Ben seems relieved and somehow invigorated when he discovers Jacob’s words to Locke…”help me”…he could see this as a sign that he hasn’t lost control of Jacob or that Jacob is powerless or that Locke hasn’t upset the balance of power in any way that matters.
–for what it’s worth the numbers young Ben used to disable the sonic fence…54439…5 + 4= 9….9 x 4=36…36 x 3=108..but I can’t work in the last digit “9″…108 divided by 9 =12
Hi TJ!
May 12th, 2007 at 1:14 am
where is the logic in your number thing ??
May 12th, 2007 at 1:48 am
With the next week preview, we can presume that Danielle Rousseau take the dynamite to help Jack and Juliet to attack the Others
May 12th, 2007 at 4:52 am
Maybe Locke dies and Terry O’Quinn plays the part of Jacob for the rest of the show?
I also thought that Ben didn’t show Jacob the proper reverence and respect due to someone so “magnificent” as Patchy once called him. Ben has been feeding Jacob some kind of kryptonite and has him under his power.
May 12th, 2007 at 5:21 am
I think Locke is Jacob but he still doesn’t know it…
May 12th, 2007 at 5:25 am
I take it back! I don’t know anything anymore!!! Waaaaahhhh!!!!
May 12th, 2007 at 5:43 am
Hi, I just recently stumbled across this site. I love LOST and really enjoy reading everyone’s comments each week. I think Wednesday night’s episode was one of the best ever. I was definitely one of the people saying “Whaaaaat?” when Ben shot Locke.
At first I wondered why Alex gave Locke a gun. If it’s true that no one has ever seen or heard Jacob, then why would Locke need a gun to protect himself against something that he can’t see or hear? But then I thought that Alex knew Ben would try to kill Locke once he witnessed what Jacob really was. I agree with the person who said in an earlier post that anyone Ben has ever taken to see Jacob has never come back.
I loved the Ben flashbacks. I’ve been waiting for them for a while. I think they are key to the truth about the island. Did anyone ever think that “Help me” was Jacob saying aloud what Locke was thinking to himself? Maybe Jacob can read minds and to prove his existence, he spoke through Ben (that would be the only way Locke could hear him) to show Locke he knew what he was thinking. That would explain why Ben didn’t hear what Jacob said. And if Jacob can read people’s minds, he could be relaying that information to Ben which is why Ben seems to know everything about everyone.
Another theory I had is maybe Jacob took control over Ben while he was still young. There’s a big gap between Ben 12 years of age to the time he killed his father. Who knows what happened in between. At some point Jacob could have possessed Ben and the person we know as Ben is really Jacob. And it was Ben who made a breakthrough to Locke by saying, “Help me.” When the entire creepy ordeal was over and Jacob gained control again, it would be Jacob trying to figure out what Ben said to Locke and not the other way around.
I think Ben’s mom, Ecko’s brother, Leonard, Jack’s dad, and the black horse are Jacob taking the form of those beings to lure the people in to the dark side. Ben did say that Jacob summons people. He tried to summon Jack, Kate, Hurley and Ecko. Ecko died when he followed his brother. Hurley would have died if he would have followed Leonard off the cliff.
I didn’t watch the show when it originally aired but caught up on DVD over the winter hiatus. In the second episode, Locke explained the game of parchese to Walt as “Two players, two sides. One light, one dark.” Does anyone think that’s what’s going on on the island? A good vs. evil thing? Maybe God and Satan themselves? The “ultimate showdown?” The biblical references are everywhere. In the Bible, Benjamin was the son of Jacob. Jacob was Isaac’s son and Isaac of course, Abraham’s son. There was a place in the Bible before Jesus died called Abraham’s bosom where the righteous people awaited Judgement Day.
From wikipedia: Here, the righteous occupied an abode or compartment of their own which was distinctly separated by a wall or a chasm from the abode or compartment to which the wicked were consigned. The latter was a place of torments usually spoken of as Gehenna (cf. Matt., 5:29, 30; 18:9ff, Mark 9:42 sqq. in the Latin Vulgate)- the other, a place of bliss and security known under the names of “Paradise” (cf. Luke, 23:43) or “the Bosom of Abraham” (Luke, 16:22, 23).
I know the writers have ruled out hell and purgatory but this was a bit different.
When Ben started to follow his mother’s spirit, she said it wasn’t time. Almost as if he is some sort of “chosen one” for the dark side. Funny how his mom knew what his name should be after he was born, much like Mary knew what to call Jesus. When Richard learned that Ben had seen his dead mom, he looked surprised. Maybe he thought, “this is the one.”
Anyway, these are just thoughts. Obviously, not everything has a religious correlation but I just thought this was interesting.
I thought Ben’s father looked familiar but didn’t realize he was Uncle Rico. That is exactly why I like coming to this site, you guys really know your stuff!
May 12th, 2007 at 5:59 am
For the people who didn’t recognize Uncle Rico, maybe they should get him a vest or gold bracelet or something to make him look official.
May 12th, 2007 at 6:53 am
I came up with a wacky theory for the 54439 fence code. Using the numbers to represent the letters in the alphabet in their correct order: 5=e, 4=d, 3=c, 9=i. This gives us “eddci”, which means nothing, but if you rearrange them and add some spaces, you get “i c ded”, which could represent “I see dead…people”. We were shown that Ben sees his dead mom and the jury’s obviously out on Jacob.
May 12th, 2007 at 8:50 am
Dave - I think the guy’s name was Horace.
Here’s a nit-picky art direction kind of observation:
When young Ben runs out of his house after discovering drunk dad passed out on the couch, notice that the door has an ADA-type door handle - that is, not a “knob” type. Would such handles be in use in whatever year this is/was supposed to be?
May 12th, 2007 at 9:48 am
George Allen Herrmann Jr.,
The actor who played Mr. Ecko (Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje) wanted to leave the show to pursue an independent project of his own (a bio film). So the writers/producers wrote his characters off (see the official podcast for more info).
Almost everyone agrees that Mr. Ecko was one of the strongest characters of the show, or at least as important as Jack, and Locke.
WHERE ARE YOU JEN & RYAN??????? We Miss You!!!
May 12th, 2007 at 11:11 am
George,
You can also find the same info on the Wikipedia… Just follow the link below:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adewale_Akinnuoye-Agbaje
D!
May 12th, 2007 at 11:54 am
Ben said.. everybody respond to someone… Is Jacob follow someone else order ??
May 12th, 2007 at 7:18 pm
George Allen Herrmann Jr. -
Welcome to crazyland. Namaste, brotha.
Sincerely,
Nuckinfuts
May 13th, 2007 at 2:30 am
Lots of interesting thoughts here! Thanks to Ryan and Jen for a great blog.
I just wanna back up what Connie in Alaska pointed out; the colour of the eyeball appears to be brown, and Locke’s eyes are blue… I just don’t think Jacob is Locke. Also, Locke’s eyebrows sits higher up on his forehead and are lighter in colour.
What happened to the guys up in the winterland - was it Greenland? Haven’t seen much of them lately… Could they be linked to Jacob?
May 13th, 2007 at 2:40 am
I’ve never posted here before, and I don’t pretend to be as insightful or clever as any of the veteran contributors to this blog. However, if I were to make a feeble attempt to anticipate or guess where the brilliant creators of LOST were going to take us next, these are my thoughts.
We’ve been shown that Mikial is adept at “field surgery”, first with Sayid and again with Naomi; and evidently has some insight into the unusual healing properties of the Island.
It seems that Locke’s assault on Mikial was a little gratuitous and excessive, perhaps even a bit out of character for Locke. Nevertheless, we had that piece of drama laid before us in a way that was not to be overlooked.
Is Locke now going to be in dire need of Mikial’s services to treat his gunshot wound to save his life… could this be another strange twist to the ironies that seem to plague Locke’s entire life?
Also, if Locke’s fall into the burial pit resulted in damage to his spine, does Locke happen to know any Spinal Surgeons who may also coincidentally be on the Island, and is on sufficiently friendly terms with that surgeon? Or, will he face the dilemma of surviving the shooting but returning to a wheelchair?
Does any of this seem likely or am I missing something… as I said, I’m just guessing. Not a prediction, just a possibility.
May 13th, 2007 at 5:21 am
Lets goo dont stop we are close of 200 comment !!!!