Also… Rose in the pilot (? — sometime in season 1 definitely) refers to the noise of the “monster” as sounding like something from her childhood. She also says something (I thought) about being from Brooklyn. Maybe it’s supposed to be reminiscent of a subway or a roller coaster on Coney Island, but your theory would be in keeping along those lines.

I posted once before about the program Planet Earth on Discovery. There are several animals featured there (locusts being most notable, but some birds and fish as well) that travel in packs and can be so dense as to obscure the sun for minutes at a time and can take hours to pass. Could they lift Eko or drag Locke or kill 815’s pilot? Probably not. But could they appear as a cloud of black smoke? Sure. There *may* be a hypothetical explanation. Or it may just be nanobots.

I posted once before about the program Planet Earth on Discovery. There are several animals featured there (locusts being most notable, but some birds and fish as well) that travel in packs and can be so dense as to obscure the sun for minutes at a time and can take hours to pass. Could they lift Eko or drag Locke or kill 815’s pilot? Probably not. But could they appear as a cloud of black smoke? Sure. There *may* be a hypothetical explanation. Or it may just be nanobots.

Anybody who bothers to read my posts (hopefully someone does, though I suspect the numbers are dwindling ) knows I’m not a big fan of the Time Loop theory. I like the above explanation much better. Not to throw out yet another eponym, but there is a principle called Occum’s razor which states (and I paraphrase) that the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. So “maybe someone else took a picture of Penny and Des at that moment” is far more plausible than “maybe it’s all a time loop and all the laws of space and time that we take for granted are suspended for Lost.”

We know Des and Mr Widmore weren’t the best of friends, and that Widmore is a powerful guy who may at least be tangentially connected to the island.

Lost is sci-fi. Clearly it’s not all literally plausible, but with few exceptions (the smoke monster, anyone? though maybe we’ll get an answer on the one) has all been very grounded in REALITY.

That being said… I thought the time loop/wormhole thing in Donnie Darko was KICK ASS.

Quick idea on the differences…..

Is it at all possible (well anything is possible really in this show) that the “others” / Widmore / Hanso / Dharma had someone tailing Des/Penny throughout this portion of their life??…knowing what they know about him or don’t know for that matter….is it possible that rather than a time loop idea causing problems with the picture….that a “spy” took the picture from a different angle than the real photographer….????…perhaps with the intent to monitor/trail Penny or Des / find out who she/he was hanging out with…or something along those lines???

PERHAPS Penny found the “spy” pic. and rebelled against her father/Hanso/whoever and kept it for herself (her copy) and than hired the two Portugese guys (and eventually heligirl wiht photocopy) to find him?? Maybe she is “Jacob” and caused the whole thing on her own b.c. of how disappointed she was with Des. for leaving….knowing about the island from previous research her father was involved in….and hoped he would have the opportunity to “change” things later on in life when he realized how much he loved her…..who knows…not me…but if “they” had planned to have Des “disappear” from the real world, they would need a picture to find out about his “progress” on the island later on in life….and/or what changes happened to him….and/or for Kelvin(?) to find him on the island to distinguish him from the hostiles???

CAN’T WAIT FOR 2NITE….
peace

The writers spent a whole episode explaining Time-Loops, I doubt we can dismiss it and say that these don’t exist.

And if the TIme-Loop explaination is only in Desmond’s mind, then how come he can see into the future?

Anyone know how or where I can watch a copy of the episode, “Flashes Before Your Eyes”? ABC used to post a bunch of episodes, but now only offers the last 4 or so. ABC - give me more LOST and less According to Jim.

My 2 cents: Definitely different pictures. Highly unlikely to be anyone but Des and Penny. Taken in what appears to be the same place while wearing the same clothing. Maybe the instant photo guy actually took two shots? Just because it wasn’t explicitly shown to us doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

I suppose they could easily be Photoshopped as well… someone who looks like Des (remeber the Other who looks like Des from season 2) in the same place with Penny (or someone who looks like her).

Depends how paranoid/skeptical you want to be.

Anyways, all you time guys go for it! Now you have some evidence…

I’ve played that game w/ photos of bikini models in a bar where you circle the differences for points. Most of the time it’s models, sometimes it’s a nature scene or something. It is always best when they are pictures of models. All I can tell you in the end was that I was wasting my time when I should have been dancing and trying to get laid, not playing video games at a bar.

That’s how I feel about the photos so far…I’m waiting for the show to make it obvious to me that it is an interactive experience. I think for our own reasons some of us have taken it upon ourselves to do this ( get online and talk/share/discuss), myself included. But some people to an even greater extent than I have so far. It is fun to come here a few minutes a week and comment, but I don’t feel the producers have ever made it clear to me that it was my job as a loyal viewer to do this.

I think the photos might be a little different because of production errors. When the show tells me it is a must to go online, and it is a must to be part of an interactive experience, then I’ll pay more attention to stuff like this. Have the producer’s ever said that as a viewer I am supposed to go to the internet to see if someone had on green socks or red, was holding a baseball bat or a softball bat, was throwing up or puking? I don’t think that the average viewer of this show would ever get that…and I would like to know before I get into something as simple as a t.v. show that it is going to take that much more demanded devotion before I decide that is for me.

This has already taken on a life of it’s own, in as much as I am here commenting. Whereas, with Deal or No Deal I can fastfoward through the b.s. and get to the money shot. I love this show for it’s intracacies, but I don’t want to be burdened w/ the mis-belief of every single thing I see on the show. Perhaps, if the producers say that I’ve got to devote all of my energy to this show is when I’ll take my lessons learned from wasting my time and money on the photo-finder games at the bars and spend more time on Wednesdays to try and get laid rather than being a viewer…probably…then again it’s pretty good stuff.

NuckinFuts~

“Chip chip chip chip chip chip chip….Neddy!” “The photos are different!”

Copter Girl’s version is definately a scanned, ink jet copy on an ordinary sheet of paper. Less contrast, softer, less detail, taken on an overcast day and has no white border at all, but is surrounded with gray.

Here’s the kicker! It’s a totally different pose. There are similarities, but man, it’s different. Desmond doesn’t look like the same guy, either. And I remember Hurley saying as he looked at Copter Girls’ photo, “Hey man, is that you?”

This is remarkable. I’m leaving a website address where I present the photos but don’t know if it will be posted.

Copter Girl’s version is definately a scanned, ink jet copy on an ordinary sheet of paper. Less contrast, softer, less detail, taken on an overcast day and has no white border at all but is surrounded with gray.

Here’s the kicker! It’s a different pose. There are similarities, but man, it’s different. Desmond doesn’t look like the same guy. And I remember Hurley saying as he looked at Copter Girls’ photo, “Hey, is that you?”

This is remarkable. I’ll post these photos for a short time on my company’s web site. http://www.shatrshield.com/desphotos.html

They seem to have hundreds of story threads going here. Not always, but usually the 10 PM time slot is the kiss of death from a network. This has to be an expensive program to produce and I bet the actors are tired of being wet, dirty, running through the jungle and not getting enough screen time. I had heard the producers want to, at least, make it to 100 episodes. Has anyone heard anything? This is a great program and this has been a rock n’ roll season.

EnviroCaper — I thought there was a moment in DOC where the picture seems pretty clearly color copied/scanned. (The picture is on a larger sheet of paper than a photo print.)

Regarding the Others knowing Desmond… they learned about the survivors of 815 by getting names and perhaps procuring a manifest. But unless Kelvin was feeding the Others information — and my inclination is that he was working for Dharma and was not an Other, especially since he seemed to think he could get off the island by sailboat — that even though they could see Des, they couldn’t know much about him (e.g. name or get other info). UNLESS there was a plot to get him to the island (Libby gave him a boat, he has a connection to Widmore). The Others may have “left well enough alone” as with Rousseau and decided to live and let live. He clearly didn’t know about them aside from what Kelvin has told him regarding the “Hostiles.”

Also — the official Lost podcast clearly insinuates that Naomi is either lying about the lack of survivors, or that the crash was “staged” by some larger organization and that’s why she thought there were no survivors. They sort of dismissed the wormhole theory.

1) How could have Locke known the specific “trip” Boone would go on?

2) Then might the Others have the technology to be supplying Des with “specific” visions? As he continues to save Charlie, is he redeeming himself?

3) Des was the only person injecting the yellow drug — and Ethan gave Claire a dose. Is the yellow substance something like a programable LSD?

1) the issue with the identical photograph….des and parachute girl….is it remotely possible that during desmonds “outings” (they obviously could be watching him) they photocopied the picture……..but why???

2) perhaps desmond is the “key” somehow…the injections perhaps were to limit his “flashes”….or keep them in control….while keeping him in a secure location as well…..and the others are a bit worried he could stumble upon something….perhaps that breaks the time loop??…or answers questions we all would like to know more about…the origin/true meaning behind the others/dharma/widmore…whatever it is….OR….maybe they were a way of making him “See” things to set him up for something??

3) the fact that none of the others seem to know him means nothing…we know they are very smart and deceptive…and the writers want us to believe they have no idea about him….

4) perhaps helicopter girl was sent as a total scam by the others to “remove” des from the losties….she may try to offer him a 1person-1way ticket off the island, only to bring him back to “jail” or what have you….since the others know of his ability, and know what happens, perhaps he is “Stalling” their plans by saving charlie or whatever he changes….and they want things to go smoothly…..

5)last one…sorry….what if the others implanted something into his brain….while he was alone…or with the losties (after the hatch blew up) to allow him to see things….contradicts them trying to keep him secret…but who knows …maybe someone out there can figure it out more thoughtfully than my rambles…haha…

thanks!!!…love the site…love the comments….

peace.

NuckinFuts — cool theories. Keep ‘em coming.

Regarding Naomi and Mikhail… one thing to keep in mind is that Desmond was NOT on flight 815. Naomi (aka Chopper Girl) had no reason to expect that 815 was there on the island. (Perhaps the initial disturbance that tuned Penny into the possibility of where Des might be was the crash of 815, but when the Swan hatch “melted down” was when Penny was notified by the Portugese-speaking men at the end of Season 2. So she would not be looking for 815 and have no expectation of finding it, and any reports she heard she would have no reason to doubt. Think back to the days after September 11th or any other tragedy… the assumption is often that there are no survivors. The only way anyone would know that there were surviviors would be if the Losties contacted the “rest of the world,” or if the Others spread the news.

OR… maybe Naomi is in with the Others and they are associated with Widmore Labs (which would explain all the supply drops and the apparent connection to Widmore). It also might explain how Penny is able to track down Des but nobody else has found the island. (Maybe Naomi can go back and forth like Richard, the guy who looks like he’s wearing eyeliner.) Maybe Mikhail communicates w/ her through the satellite phone, and he was trying to conceal his complicity in this, but once it was discovered he felt no need to hide that she had the phone or that he tried to take it. (Maybe it’s a Dharma/Others closed circuit?) He could have told her where to go to find Des.

I don’t know… I am grasping at straws a bit here, but keep in mind:
- Desmond somehow washed up on the island in a sailboat.
- He lived there for three years in a hatch that the Others could easily monitor, yet they never bothered him and he never knew of them.
- Now that Penny is looking for Des (and thinks she knows where to look), all of a sudden a new person shows up on the island with a picture of Des, and Mikhail, who has tried to shoot the Losties, instead saves Naomi’s life.
- NONE of the others except for Juliet (and maybe not even her?) seems to know Des, has met Des, has discussed him, knows anthing about him. Which is NOT the case for the other Losties. (Maybe I am wrong?)
- Maybe this explains where he was when he “disappeared?”

Also, regarding mental illness and the island and Des’s “flashbacks:” His flashbacks could also be a form of mental illness. PTSD from being at the epicenter of the meltdown. Latent psychosis from being alone on the island for however long and drinking like a fish. (Maybe his daily injections were Haldol?) Who knows? But to ignore that possibility that this could be a psychiatric issue (and yet believe that Hurley could see his invisible friend Dave both on and off the island) in favor of a “time loop” is a bit too much of a stretch for me.

2) Dave is right. Some injuries are too severe for the island to heal — they’re off the payrole.

3) Brian, Mikhail DID give up the phone too easily. His whole appearance seemed staged to me. My favorite Mikhail Moment was back at the Flame when he threw that crappy pitcher of ice tea at Locke and missed at 4-feet. Maybe because he has only one eye, but I think the patch is a mini satellite dish.

Plus, I don’t really want to get into the middle of a spat between some contributors here, BUT… Kate might be pregnant but there is absolutely NO evidence now that she is, Juliet simply told Ben on the tape recorder that she would get samples from “Austen and the other women” presumably to test.
Mikhail has either resurrected or was not dead in the first place but that doesn’t mean that all the dead come back to life on this island (ask Goodwin (decaying corpse that Eko and Jin found), Colleen Pickett (sent out to sea in a funeral pyre), and Roger (body found by Hurley in the Dharma Van) etc.
And for the last time Artz is not, nor has he ever been an Other.

Jin definitely looks 100% Korean so I don’t think he’s part white. Even the crazy writers for Lost would not have Paik being Jin’s dad and then make Sun pregnant. That’s just too disgusting.

God.

I thought it was a good episode. I agree that Sun just running off with Juliette was strange. I…. don’t really have any other opinions about the episode. I don’t know why. I am very excited for next week’s episode, though.

Chapter 1. Sun’s Baby

I was under the impression that Sun’s family business may yet prove to have ties to the island. Just like Widmore, HANSO, DHARMA , etc. have been long speculated as a joint venture I was sure people thought Paik Industries ( or whatever it is called ) was just as suspicious.

As a twist, the doctor who told Sun that Jin was “shooting blanks” may have done this from the order of Mr. Paik. The doctor admitted to Sun that he knew Jin worked for Mr. Paik, but what if he himself did as well. Mr. Paik never approved of their marriage and perhaps he thought by forcing the doctor to tell Sun that Jin was incapable of becoming a father it would cause a rift between them that would ultimately end up in Sun’s choice to leave Jin.

No matter what has occurred between Juiet and Sun, this could be part of the overall scheme.

….just a thought….

Chapter 2. Chopper-Girl

I like the idea above about the Chopper-Girl speaking in tounges. As far as my understanding of this goes she would have no idea as to what she was saying or who it was directed to. Besides that, she had just crash landed in a tree and was hanging for about 12 hours and was traumatized. I think it is much too early to be speculating her future role, and especially anything she said to Patchy. The only real tie to anyone so far is Desmond. He is the only one she mentioned by name and of course she had the photo. That’s as far as I’m willing to go this week.

Chapter 3. Majic Land

In an earlier post I described what I thought could be a semi-satisfying explanation to the islands properties. I still think my overall theory is holding up, however, I am with Dave on healing. If we think back, several people who have died have definately died. If everyone who died on the island came back to life the whole Island would be crawling w/ zombies and nobody would be watching this show. The deputy that had Kate in custody is a prime example. He had wounds that did not heal…but perhaps they were not given a chance. Sawyer shot him in the end. Game over for him. I like the idea that penetrating wounds, loss of blood and things of that nature last forever ( until death at least ), but intrenal wounds / disabilities / functions may be corrected by the island.

In a way, perhaps the island not only corrects some types of internal wounds, but it also corrects mental defects ( on Losties ) as well. Many people on the island ( most of whom are dead ) had issues in their lives that were sorted out before they died. Hurley is no longer on medication for mental illness. Charlie is off drugs. Sawyer is almost learning to say he’s sorry. The island’s properties may have some things to do with these actions as well as curing Locke, Rose, and Patchy.

Chapter 4. Patchy

Whoever said someting about this : Patchy definitely did not see the chopper coming from his right eye and did’nt see it from his original spy lab…it is blown up…

Chapter 5. Ping Pong

I think I could beat Hurley at ping pong. Strangely…I can’t wait to see Benry and I don’t want anyone to kill him. I was the 2nd smoke monster on the grassy knoll. John Locke has some splainin’ to do. I got Sun Pregnant, but I’ll let Jin take care of daddy duty!

The End.

Thusly, the parachute girl’s claim that the 815 wreckage was found and there were no survivors is all a big lie! Don’t fall for it again, I say! She’s obviously in cohoots with Patchy, just as Ryan pointed out. Her “revelation” does nothing to prove any of the time-loop or alternate timeline theories, in my opinion.

Mikhail being healed by the island? Possibly, but I think there’s some trickery involved that we have yet to find out. The island healing Locke and Rose is still unproven. Locke and Rose only believe the island healed them, as we have yet to receive any real proof.

Which leads me to a question I have not seen posed here yet. Why didn’t the island heal Boone? He only died of a badly injured leg. That seems less of an injury than Mikhial sustained. Somehow then, Mikhail faked it.

Except for a few immature posters, this is the best Lost comments section out there. This place rules!!

If anyone has seen “The Prestige,” it’s similar to that. It seems you have no idea how something happens, but when you learn how it did, it’s so stupefyingly simple that the elegance of it is all the more amazing.

That being said, I have no possible explanation for the “magical healing properties” of the island.
- Some of it could be coincidence or mind over matter (Locke walking… maybe he healed or his wheelchair use was a somatization disorder after the trauma his father inflicted; Rose feeling well).
- Ben clearly lost his “magical healing” property with the tumor he has.
- Gunshots and penetrating wounds are still lethal.
- Drownings still occur.
- Neck-snappings and head bashings still kill people.
- Sepsis still occurs.
- It’s yet to be seen how well Naomi does and whether her pneumothorax will reaccumulate.
Is there other evidence to suggest that people either do or don’t get sick/die? I’m curious what other people recall. Try to remain somewhat skeptical, as with Mikhail… looking dead and being dead are two different beasts.

I would hesistate to dismiss any of these theories, but maybe I’m just more a “Man of Science” than a “Man of Faith.” =)

Okay…. now what?!

Which theories (which have never been labeled ’stoopid’) are now valid?
-Kate HAS to be pregnant
-There IS a time loop
-The dead DON’T stay dead

Are we watching the same show? If you hear hoof steps do you automatically think horse or Zebra?

What happened to last week’s promise?

Also, I don’t think that the Black Rock was Danielle’s boat…I think that has supposedly been there for a long, long time.

Stories with family themes are as old and primal and universal as you can get. Everyone comes from somewhere and everyone at one time or other has family issues…it’s the ultimate universally understood plot line. It crosses age, time and national barriers. On this show alone we have Africans, Brits, Koreans, Hispanics, Americans, French…it’s all the same story…family at the same time gives us our greatest joy and our greatest sorrows.

1. The oxygen mask on the parachute women didn’t make any sense. Helicopters don’t normally fly high enough to need them. They don’t have much range either, so it must have come from nearby. I suspect the writers did this for dramatic effect when they revealed that she wasn’t Desmonds girlfriend.

2. Mikail was injured temporarily by the fence but didn’t die and was rapidly healed by the island (as he himself explained about the injuries to the girl).

3. The others that came with the girl could explain why he so readily gave up the Satphone. He knew they would have communications equipment too.

4. Juliet may have been lying to Sun about the date of her pregnancy, but she told Ben (on the recorder) that Sun was pregnant and that the husband was sterile prior to coming to the island. Maybe she was lying to both…

5. Nice to see the writers acknowledge and correct one of my beefs with this show: that none of the Losties seem to talk to each other about the extraordinary things that happen to them.

6. Maybe the force that destroyed Flt 815 is part of a rift or temporal distortion that shifted them into a sort of parallel universe that scientists often speculate about. Jumping a big shark, but somethings got to explain why no one can find the island. They existed in two (or more) places at the same time. Someone above explained this quantum theory.

This part of the season has been great and restored my faith in the writers. Every thing is moving along and some past mysteries explained, while new ones are created. Those of you who want to have everything wrapped up neatly need to go watch some other show. I for one dread the day that everything is finally explained. The show will be over. I don’t want it to end.

Mita — Sawyer’s parents were both killed by a con man, and he himself then became one. He also has an illegitimate daughter that he abandoned. I would call those family issues. =) There is also the rampant speculation that Locke’s dad is the “original Sawyer,” who killed Sawyer (James Ford)’s parents.

I would add Jin having Dad issues as well; he is ashamed enough of his father to lie about whether he’s alive. And Desmond had “brother” issues (kicked out of the Army) and “father” issues (with Penny’s pops), but that’s more of a stretch. Michael and Walt have themselves and Michael’s ex-wife. Sayid you could maybe make a case about the fraterntiy of war/the Republican Guard. Plus there is some yet-to-be-revealed connection between Locke (who inspected Nadia’s house) and Sayid, as well as Kate (her ‘dad,’ the one in the Army) and Desmond (via Kelvin). All stretches, I realize. (And add Ana Lucia and her mom… and her baby.)

HOOO MYYYY GODDDDD !!!!… what an end !!!

The appearance of a living and breathing Mikhail still has me spinning. I’m just trying to wrap my head around that one.

I’m wondering who was with Naomi, since she wasn’t alone, and where that other person landed. I’ll go out on a limb and say that that person is still alive, ready to throw a monkey wrench into the works.

A part of me is thinking that Juliette is lying about the date of conception - to get off the island, she needs to produce a live baby with a live mother. If she moves the d.o.c. up to island-time, then, voila! Sun lives and gets to believe that Jin is the father, and Juliette thinks that she’ll get to go home. Since Juliette’s a master manipulator, I wouldn’t put that past her. I have to add a disclaimer though - I’m not completely convinced of my own theory.

I’m almost at the point where I don’t care anymore, but I am trying to hold out. I feel like a kid who is trying to swim with an anchor. They need to get to the dam point.

I put up with the writers crap when they “introduced” the other survivors. Then, they did the “biography” thing, which didn’t help the plot in my opinion. The writers are paying more attention with the past, than the future. Yes, I did like the little flashbacks. “LITTLE” flashbacks, but give it a rest.

Sorry to not be so chipper, but I have been down the road of “never” ending plots that drag on forever till the ratings drop. Then, the whole series moves forward at 100 mph. If I had to do it all over again, I would not watch this series, nor would I recommend it to anyone.

Static water will kill anything in it, except algae. Lost has gone static, and I hope it will connect the pieces to the puzzle before I lose interest, which I almost have.

Jack - with his dad
Locke - dad
Kate - mom
Clair - dad
Sun - dad
Jin - mom
Hurley - dad (and mom)
Charlie - older brother

The main character’s whose parental issues we haven’t seen yet are Sayid, Desmond and Sawyer. Even dead Losties (Ana Lucia with her mom, Shannon with her step-mom, and Eko with his brother) had beef with their family.

This parental disloyalty issue, coupled with the recurring story line about pregnant women on the island has to mean something. What it means, I have no idea… thought?

I would have expected that if Sun was worried (what with having had multiple sexual partners before departure, and knowing that she is fertile and Jin is not) about possibly being pregnant by Baldie, that she might have paid more attention.

Menstrual cycles can be affected by extreme thinness (Sun is pretty thin), extreme obesity, trauma, birth control medications or hormonal changes. If she is only 8 weeks along, it is possible, if she has had irregular periods in the past, to not know by the “oh-I-missed-my-period” method. Also, it is possible to have a very light period the first couple of months and still maintain the pregnancy…it happened to me! Besides, with all the drama of the plane crash, keeping secrets, survival, kidnapping, etc. she may just have lost track of her cycle…you know…”out of sight, out of mind”.

Besides she is with child and will be “first to live”.
I think Sun will lose baby but LIVE. (More Touching/Story)

To get Prego, Yes, there is a “window of opportunity”, this Island is Different …”As are the Rules”.
The Dharma/Hansho food stuff could be laced with fertility drugs.
Maybe it’s in the Oatmeal? Jack is purposly dising Kate, and sorta giving her the cold treatment. He is a tool.

Why would Lost Producers show us Kate getting with Sawyer in detail if there was not a “ConceptionConection”?

Mikhail still had the blood or fake blood from his ears. Mikhail, wash up, comrade.